Grounding Boxes

[Folsom]

CAD explains what their boxes do here: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/CAD_Ground_Control.pdf

In a nutshell, their devices turn high frequency noise into heat. Why attenuating ground plane noise that is far above audible frequencies improves things is not entirely clear. However, the effect ranged from positive to dramatic in every system I have heard them tried in. They seem to have the largest impact on the device with the most high frequency noise. In most systems that will be whatever is feeding a digital stream to the DAC.

I first heard them at Axpona based on a tip from a friend to check them out. The CAD system sounded different (different “better”) than everything else digital at the show including some very high priced stuff. It was so good I had to try one at home.

In my opinion they are essential and I plan to get at least one more. In my system a single CAD ground control connected to the streamer made more difference than a major DAC upgrade (which I was quite happy with).

Sounds like a nice idea but isn't true at all, for obvious reasons. The device isn't parallel, it's perpendicular. Nothing will flow that way from your current equipment.

 

[Backpacker]

I’ll trust my ears, thank you, for obvious reasons.

I find it sad that people will dismiss obvious improvements because the technical approach doesn’t fit current theories. Sorry, but that is not science, its dogma. My world is software and I can assure you the “that’s impossible” stage comes before the understanding what is going on stage.

“What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.”

? Mark Twain

 

[Folsom]

I’ll trust my ears, thank you, for obvious reasons.

I find it sad that people will dismiss obvious improvements because the technical approach doesn’t fit current theories. Sorry, but that is not science, its dogma. My world is software and I can assure you the “that’s impossible” stage comes before the understanding what is going on stage.

“What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so.”

? Mark Twain

You misunderstand. I didn't say you aren't benefiting from it, I'm pointing out that it simply doesn't work the way the link you provided says. Everyone wants these to be more than they are because people can't handle the truth. The truth should simply be if you like it, use it, but instead everyone has an absolute brain melt-down when facing the truth as known by everyone with any education on electricity.

 

[Barry2013]

You misunderstand. I didn't say you aren't benefiting from it, I'm pointing out that it simply doesn't work the way the link you provided says. Everyone wants these to be more than they are because people can't handle the truth. The truth should simply be if you like it, use it, but instead everyone has an absolute brain melt-down when facing the truth as known by everyone with any education on electricity.

Yes Folsom I agree you should use it if you like it and you hear a discernible improvement in the sound quality.
My technical knowledge is limited anyway .I have continued with Entreq for some years through several upgrades of the rest of the system and with each successive upgrade the sound quality improved consistently. .
Most recent upgrades have been the move from Etsuro Cobalt to Bordeaux, 1970s NOS tubes in the MD 109T and an Apollo Infinity pc on the Vitus 025.
I sometimes think the lack of technical expertise is an advantage as long as you are ruthless about perception bias and have others to check if they are hearing what you are hearing while allowing for different tastes.

 

[Silverdale]

CAD explains what their boxes do here: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/CAD_Ground_Control.pdf

In a nutshell, their devices turn high frequency noise into heat. Why attenuating ground plane noise that is far above audible frequencies improves things is not entirely clear. However, the effect ranged from positive to dramatic in every system I have heard them tried in. They seem to have the largest impact on the device with the most high frequency noise. In most systems that will be whatever is feeding a digital stream to the DAC.

I first heard them at Axpona based on a tip from a friend to check them out. The CAD system sounded different (different “better”) than everything else digital at the show including some very high priced stuff. It was so good I had to try one at home.

In my opinion they are essential and I plan to get at least one more. In my system a single CAD ground control connected to the streamer made more difference than a major DAC upgrade (which I was quite happy with).

Very interesting Backpacker, it sounds plausible.

I have tried disconnecting the Entreq ground box I have which works on a similar principle except using what looks like an antenna, presumably to transmit the offending energy rather than burn it. I can hear no sonic benefit either way. I am wondering if it is attempting to solve a problem that I am lucky enough not to have or is the difference just very subtle.

 

[Barry2013]

Very interesting Backpacker, it sounds plausible.

I have tried disconnecting the Entreq ground box I have which works on a similar principle except using what looks like an antenna, presumably to transmit the offending energy rather than burn it. I can hear no sonic benefit either way. I am wondering if it is attempting to solve a problem that I am lucky enough not to have or is the difference just very subtle.

When you disconnect and then reconnect an Entreq ground box it takes about ten mimutes to settle so woth trying.

 

[Silverdale]

When you disconnect and then reconnect an Entreq ground box it takes about ten mimutes to settle so woth trying.

Thanks,

is it immediately worse if you disconnect as well, the 10 mins is only after re-connection?

 

[Barry2013]

Should be but the benefits are usually most noticeable ten minutes afrer reconnection

 

[Silverdale]

Hi, I have had the Entreq Discover Diskon box, connected and disconnected many times, I have as you say compared it against a longer delay between connection and disconnection. We can't hear an audible improvement even when the test is blind. How odd, I was expecting a noticable difference.

 

[Barry2013]

Hi
That is unusual but if it is not making a difference then that's where we are.
The only other thoughts are how are you connecting it to the components in your system and have you tried it with different items. I presume the earth cable is spade to RCA with the rca going into an appropriate input. The other thought is where you are siting the ground box. They prefer to be well away from any mains sources.
You may like to experiment accordingly. If that doesn't help my only other suggestion would be one of the boxes further up the range which your dealer may be able to let you try.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry, it's common experience for you and me to have heard big differences and invest big, and others not so much/not at all.

My Entreq rig was pivotal to an improved overall SQ in London, much less up here. Same system, different grid.

 

[Barry2013]

Barry, it's common experience for you and me to have heard big differences and invest big, and others not so much/not at all.

My Entreq rig was pivotal to an improved overall SQ in London, much less up here. Same system, different grid.

Thanks Marc
Yes I agree.
Whilst I didn't wish to appear like a dog with a bone in my reply to Silverdale it seemed sensible to share my thoughts with him. As we both know there are occasions when some simple adjustment can make all the difference.It may or may not be the case with Silverdales system but it is IMHO at least worth a try.

 

[Mossback]

If I may suggest..... don't try to overthink exactly how the Entreq boxes work simply test them in your own system and then judge if it's worthwhile or not.
In my case disconnecting the boxes it takes an hour or more to recover and the longer it's disconnected the longer the recovery.
I've found the quality of box cables makes a significant improvement.

 

[Mossback]

I have not been able to test how low the ground is as opposes to a true 0v ground reference. I do find it contributes to better separation in the sound and overall clarity.

It looks to be that all equipment will be causing some small voltage in the ground potential.

As i already have a dedicated line and ground rod to earth, so i did invest in the Telos ground noise reducer with was developed and tested and specifically targeted to reduce and lower this voltage potential.

But if the ground is shared with all you other appliances in your home. It may take more to deal with this issue or worst, the effectiveness if yiu stay it an apartment with a common ground with say 40 other apartment units, this may not be very effective.

I spent days connecting various grounding schemes and every single permutation sounded different some ground connections where barely noticeable.

It ends up i like it with my preamp grounded with 4 different ground connections, 2 signal as well as 2 chassis ground, the 4th chassis connection was the biggest contributor to the sound and i like the sound as it is. So that will stay regardless of some claiming it will cause a ground loop.

Every device contributes to the sound, any 1 cable drops off, i hear and know something is missing.

Grounding currently consist of Troy Sig with 6 std silver cables, 2 FMR EE ground. Entreq Atlantis, Tellus 2 and Olympus with 4 Atlantis ground (1 being infinity), 4 Apollo ground and 1 silver.

1 Telos GNR mini v3. 1 with 8 ground cables.

1Taiko Setchi D2 usb to streamer.

1 Synergistic grounding block with 4 HD cables and a couple of standard ones with some Neotech Silver wire with 1 no brand ground box for the network.

The quality of cables are paramount to the effectiveness of ground boxes and have each a sonic character which can be very different and also carefully selected.

I have tested other most of the models of the Entreq ground boxes ( not the new range thou) but did not like what the did to the sound.

Each brand also does something different and are complementary to the overall effectiveness and sound.

Justubes if you don't mind elaborating I'm curious how the SR Active Ground Box affects your system and what it's attached to. I use some Synergetic Research products to good effect and am considering the active ground box as well.

 

[justubes]

Justubes if you don't mind elaborating I'm curious how the SR Active Ground Box affects your system and what it's attached to. I use some Synergetic Research products to good effect and am considering the active ground box as well.

I cannot say for the SR Active ground box, but i have the FEQ and a SR isolation base.

I believe to an extend the technology is somewhat similar but incorporated into the Active Ground box. It does seem to me to be similar to the Schumann frequency coils type device flooding the ground with these waves.

If it s the Telos grounding, likewise, it does something along the same lines, cleaning the sound with improved definition, dimension, accuracy - all cummulative to me as they all do some cleaning up of the spectrum.

But using the SR HD ground cable already has another improvement, i have the non active version.

It takes patience and effort as you need to get the right connection and things fall in place. Some connections do not appear to have any or much impact. Let alone different ground cables again will have a different outcome.

All i can say that there is no fixed rule of thumb. Those who have tried and dismissed it may not have given enough effort and time to find which connection shows impact to the sound as i can appreciate that they may have tried in on the equipment or connecton which was not effective and dismissed the product.

If find these affect the technical aspects of music reproduction more so than the Entreq, where there is a wide change, more so tonally, i find with the different mix of boxes and cables.

This may have been deliberate and one goes up the ladder like with the FMR EE ground cable, the performance improvement is significant and replace the Entreq Atlantis show that is is dead neutral and with big jump in resolution. The Entreq sounds sweeter, warmer and nice, but yo will realise it is at a level or 2 below a cable like the FMR EE, which its bandwidth is just superior in every way.

Well it cost much more, many time more silver conductors inside, so it's not much point comparing imo, different playing grounds for each.

 

[Lee]

Justubes if you don't mind elaborating I'm curious how the SR Active Ground Box affects your system and what it's attached to. I use some Synergetic Research products to good effect and am considering the active ground box as well.

I tried the Active Ground Block and it is superb. Noticeably lowered the noise floor.

 

[Cellcbern]

Haven't tried a grounding box because of the high cost but I did connect a Gutwire grounding cable ($300) between an input on my integrated amp and an unused wall outlet. This resulted in a modest but audible reduction in noise/increase in clarity.

 

[Duckworp]

I notice that the CAD Ground Control boxes won a Stereophile award this year.
Link: Stereophile 2020 Awards

I use CAD grounding boxes and can report that the improvements are not subtle.

 

[heihei]

I notice that the CAD Ground Control boxes won a Stereophile award this year.
Link: Stereophile 2020 Awards

I use CAD grounding boxes and can report that the improvements are not subtle.

To offer the other side, I tried CAD in my system and could hear no difference. Same with Entreq.

 

[matakana]

To offer the other side, I tried CAD in my system and could hear no difference. Same with Entreq.

Maybe your system ancillaries would have been better chassis ground ?