I don't want to challenge you but why not? Isn't the point of the ground to dissipate any voltages that don't belong into the ground?
in the hifi vernacular, grounding boxes are intended to either be chassis or signal path 'settlers'. they 'settle' the signal path/circuit chaos and allow more nuance and subtlety in the music to come through. so no, grounding boxes are not really involved in 'fixing' any A/C power grid grounding issues; it's assumed that sort of thing is already well covered. it's possible grounding boxes do fix things in the course of what they are doing. but that's not the intent of them.
Thanks Mike, I agree it is confusing, at least for me it is.
My understanding is that the "settling" you speak of involves providing a path and destination for draining noise riding on the ground, which can be achieved via both chassis connectors (e.g., rca) and in some cases casework. Is that not the case?
so far i've not found a piece of gear including passive speakers (very slight) that does not get some lift from the Tripoint Troy Signature or Elite; the Entreq a more subtle effect that is not always audible (will every system get the same benefit?). and the cable used matters too. the Tripoint Thor or above being more effective.
each set). it came with a bunch of tiny cables and bits to connect grounds to chassis. they really worked. and when i sold those cables later, i bought more of those cables and used them with my Entreq and speaker towers. whoa! big deal in the bass performance. connecting the chassis had no effects without the HFX boxes, or the Entreq. why? i have no idea.
I see that on their website Tripoint describes both the Troy variants and the Empress as "passive EMI/RFI filters".so far i've not found a piece of gear including passive speakers (very slight) that does not get some lift from the Tripoint Troy Signature or Elite; the Entreq a more subtle effect that is not always audible (will every system get the same benefit?). and the cable used matters too. the Tripoint Thor or above being more effective.
can these same 'lifts' be found in some DIY manner? i've played around to some degree with this 'chassis connector' direction...and came up with nothing i could hear. 5 years ago i owned two sets of Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution XLR and RCA interconnects with dual HFX grounding boxes (over $30k retail
my system is very, very quiet. so maybe in some systems playing around with grounding reduces noise. in my system that's not an issue to solve.
YMMV.....i'm only speaking about my ears in my system. i'll also add the tubed based systems get less lift; why? their noise floor is higher, and....drum roll.......Tripoint effects mimic some types of tube "breath of life' effects.
my 'guess' is that somehow reaching 'Tripoint' levels of positive effect is beyond amateur hobbyist's abilities. but some of us are physicists and engineers. so anything is possible.
as far as exactly what methods Tripoint or Entreq use for the effects they cause, i don't really know about that.
After several days of listening I am not hearing a significant incremental improvement from adding chassis grounding via a 2nd Groundmaster City over and above the signal grounding that I had already implemented. On some recordings there appears to be a slight increase in volume at the same setting, and a very subtle increase in bass articulation, but that's about it. This may be because my Bybee Stealth Power Purifier has filtration on the ground leg, and I have redundant noise filtration. The initial Groundmaster City connected to unused rca inlets on my amp and player resulted in a more than subtle improvement. As I reported previously: "The effect is similar but not as pronounced as what the Lessloss Entropic AC cord and Firewall 640X filters achieve. The improvement manifests as a "lifting of veils" and increase in musicality....". The improvement was significant enough that the addition of one of the expensive grounding boxes (e.g., Nordost, Telos, etc.) falls to the bottom of my list of audio priorities. At its price point I highly recommend the Groundmaster City to those who have not yet tried "grounding". Note that my first post in this series was #67 on 12/21/2021.To refresh everyone's memory, below is the link to the review that sparked my interest in the Groundmaster City device. Since the price was so low compared to the "high end" (e.g., Telos, CAD, Entreq, Nordost) grounding boxes and I hadn't invested in any of them yet, I decided to try this "cheap" solution.
Note that the same reviewer claimed on the Audiogon forum that this cheap solution was superior to the much more expensive Nordost Qkore, and several posters on that forum claimed to have gotten better results from Groundmaster than from Entreq. I have made no comparisons and make no such claims, however if I have the opportunity to do a head to head between my cheap solution and one of the expensive grounding boxes I will.
Audiogon Discussion Forum
My review on the Puritan Audio Labs GroundMaster CITY and RouteMaster grounding system has just gone up on the Stereo Times website. For all the details...forum.audiogon.com
As I indicated in a previous post, connecting a Groundmaster City device to unused rca ports on my amp and player (signal grounding) yielded an audible improvement in clarity, articulation, and naturalness that was significant enough to make it a keeper in my system. I did not hear the same level of incremental improvement initially from the addition of chassis grounding via a 2nd Groundmaster City. I will listen for several days to see what if any improvement the chassis grounding makes, and report back.
Wondered if you'd seen this Mono & Stereo interview with Tripoint founder Miguel Alvarez?so far i've not found a piece of gear including passive speakers (very slight) that does not get some lift from the Tripoint Troy Signature or Elite; the Entreq a more subtle effect that is not always audible (will every system get the same benefit?). and the cable used matters too. the Tripoint Thor or above being more effective.
can these same 'lifts' be found in some DIY manner? i've played around to some degree with this 'chassis connector' direction...and came up with nothing i could hear. 5 years ago i owned two sets of Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution XLR and RCA interconnects with dual HFX grounding boxes (over $30k retail
my system is very, very quiet. so maybe in some systems playing around with grounding reduces noise. in my system that's not an issue to solve.
YMMV.....i'm only speaking about my ears in my system. i'll also add the tubed based systems get less lift; why? their noise floor is higher, and....drum roll.......Tripoint effects mimic some types of tube "breath of life' effects.
my 'guess' is that somehow reaching 'Tripoint' levels of positive effect is beyond amateur hobbyist's abilities. but some of us are physicists and engineers. so anything is possible.
as far as exactly what methods Tripoint or Entreq use for the effects they cause, i don't really know about that.
honestly i'm not a 'how' or 'why' guy, and best leave that to others. 'magnetic conduction'? why not? i know i use to use Tourmaline Guns to reduce static and improve clarity and ease with CD's and Lp's; and adding magnets to those screens boosted the degree of effect. why? have no idea.Wondered if you'd seen this Mono & Stereo interview with Tripoint founder Miguel Alvarez?
Exclusive interview with Miguel Alvarez - Tripoint Audio
Mono & Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: Magico - Nagra - Tidal Audio - Wilson Audio - MSB - Totaldac - Living Voice - Taiko Audio - Aries Cerat -Thraxwww.monoandstereo.com
He doesn't reveal much about the inner workings of his products as you would expect, but he did mention "magnetic propulsion":
".....Through thorough research, I was able to figure out that the key to music realism was the correct implementation use of magnetic propulsion.....".
Does this imply that magnets play a role (e.g., Like High Fidelity Cables' "magnetic conduction") inside of his various boxes? What do you think?
stereo-magazine.com
The stated purpose of "grounding" boxes is to drain away "noise" (e.g., EMI/RFI) riding on the ground. Some (e.g., Tripoint, Telos) "drain" it directly into the house ground via the ground connection of a wall socket while others (e.g., Entreq, Nordost Qkore) "drain" it into a box of minerals/metals. Tripoint for example, which Mike Lavigne has said makes the biggest audible improvement, describes their grounding boxes on their website as "EMI/RFI Passive Filtration Device Components".
I'm a bit confused. What part of the RCA plug is being attached to the spade end of the ground cable that attaches the the SG box? Is it the (-) or the (+) of the RCA? If it's the (-), then isn't this the same as a chassis ground, assuming the (-) of the RCA is attached to the chassis ground? Thanks in advance.
Chassis and signal "grounding" are both about draining noise (EMI/RFI) - they are just two different connection points. The relative effectiveness of each varies from component to component. With my system I got a much bigger reduction in noise (subtle glare and haze) and increase in musicality from signal "grounding" (via unused rca inlets) my amp and sacd player than from chassis "grounding" my power conditioner and sacd player's separate power supply, although both resulted in an improvement (I have both in place, each to its own "grounding" device). I've talked to people who had opposite results. One thing I learned that I didn't know before experimenting with grounding is that some components (e.g., my sacd player) are "double insulated" which means that the casework is electrially isolated from the circuitry. Components like this often have a marking on the back which is two small squares - one within the other. Signal grounding via rca is the better option with such a component.
Spade attaches to the ground box terminal, mine has a copper clip that attaches to an unused RCA output, I run the DAC balanced so makes this straightforward. While I've attached to the (-) I don't think it matters and didn't notice any difference when I briefly compared to the (+). To compare with chassis ground just unclip and attach the clip to a metal part of the chassis. I'm told the terminations can be made in any manner, clip, spade or female rca.
Thanks. But let me ask- before I hook up the ground box- if there is 0 resistance on my test meter when measuring resistance from the RCA (-) to my chassis ground, and no voltage difference, then may I assume correctly that there shouldn't be/cannot be any sonic difference in connecting to the RCA (-) or the chassis ground? Make sense?
Don't pretend to know what's going on nor what would need to be measured or to what accuracy. It's hard to credit that simply hooking up a cable between a passive device and chassis could make any sort of difference. My experience confirmed by others I've experimented with suggests these systems can make a difference.
