Gryphon Amplifier Crackle? Help!

[LL21]

I really appreciate your time! And everyone else's. Here is the information:

1. Renting in an apartment building.

2. All equipment draws power from the same wall. Specifically:

FRONT END
- Wall (via PAD Ann Contego PC) to Nordost Qx4 (via PAD Ann Contego PC) to Transparent Ref Power Conditioner
- CJ pre, TV & Zanden DAC (via PAD Dominus PCs) feed off Transparent Ref Power Conditioner. Oppo 83 Transport (via Sablon Audio PC...plug fuse bypassed by manufacturer with silver)...also feeds off Transparent Ref Power Conditioner
- Cabling: Nordost Valhalla digicable; Transparent Reference IC/SC

Amplification:
- Wall (via PAD Ann Contego PC) to Gryphon Antileon
- Wall (via Sablon Audio PC) to Velodyne DD-18 sub

Speakers:
- Wilson X-1/Grand Slamms (sensitivity: 95 db, impedance 7 ohms avg 200hz-20khz)

If it helps at all, one of the plug outlets along the wall does not work well...if i plug my Velodyne into, there is a loud hum that comes thru the sub, so i have turned off that outlet and do not use it. the outlet does work for something like a vacuum cleaner...but i do not use it for my system.

If it is power...is there something i can do (that does not involve major renovation since i am just renting)? Is this DC coming thru the wall outlets (ie, like the humbuster from PS Audio?)...or something which power regeneration could help?

thanks again!!!

 

[FrantzM]

lloydelee21

It sounds like Power quality to me. have you had an electrician look at your wiring? The sub phenomenon is to me telling .. That is a third amplifier or electronic system to exhibit hum when plugged into your house electrical system...

It would be best to troubleshoot the problem before investing in equipment. Is it possible to have an electrician look at your house electrical system/wiring? It would be good to try to find an electrician who has experience in studio wiring ...
Is it possible for you to have someone come to your house and conduct an audit of the system in term of Power quality? Do you have some contact with some recording studio people? I would strongly suggest you to look in this direction. Computer Room and Data Center specialists are likely to be aware of the power quality problems and would likely have the tools to audit your power delivery system.
So that you understand electrical system is a parallel distribution.. a star if you will .. All the outlets in your house/apartment share the same breaker panel .. Noise at this level is transmitted throughout ALL the outlets ... It doesn't matter what brand, treatment and material the outlet is made of ... The noise simply circulates and reach ALL outlets .. if there is an outlet with so much noise it is likely that all the other outlets likely to a lesser extent carry this noise ... Some electronics are more susceptible than others to noise on the power line..
let us know ... Find way to audit your electrical wiring /system

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Frantz. i will do this. It would be interesting if that were the cause of the problem with the Gryphon Antileon. If so, it is extremely sensitive to this power problem, as it will malfunction eventually...whereas the other components at least work.

 

[Orb]

I looked a bit into this myself for my home Lloyd and in the UK this can be expensive to hire a qualified PAT/home mains engineer/electrician.
The cheapest mains monitor to provide any useful info IMO is over £1,000 to purchase, and the good ones a lot more.
Still, it can be worth going this route but possibly more for those who have greater flexibility in maintaining their mains box/wiring/etc (which if your in an apartment may not have).
Make sure that if you go this route they are qualified with portable testers and also regulations.
CHeers
Orb

 

[LL21]

Hi Orb,

Thanks...there is a retired gentlemen from KJ who was a senior engineer at the BBC (Steve B) who is very good. I may ask if he can come down to pay a visit to and test a few key areas. I may also ask him to bring an oscillascope.

 

[Orb]

Hi Orb,

Thanks...there is a retired gentlemen from KJ who was a senior engineer at the BBC (Steve B) who is very good. I may ask if he can come down to pay a visit to and test a few key areas. I may also ask him to bring an oscillascope.

If he knows what he is doing yeah, although to use an oscilloscope on a mains circuit he will need to create his own circuit to buffer-bridge between it and the mains socket, still would prefer true PAT product.
Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

will post updates...thanks!

 

[LL21]

Reading this from the PS Audio website about DC and hum...

"Typically DC is held to a very low level and causes only a few problems. However, many homes are not “typical” and this DC component can be quite high. In fact, it’s high enough to cause an asymmetry that “pushes” the voltage in the transformer in one direction and partially saturates the core of the transformer, causing it to buzz. In addition to buzzing noises, the transformer is also at a performance disadvantage because its core is not working properly."

"Transformers need to change the direction of their magnetic fields multiple times per second in order to function properly. When there’s DC on the line, it forces the transformer to stay polarized in one direction and this make the transformer a little crazy - and it hums and complains in response."

As a non-techie, i understand the Gryphon is DC-coupled. Would excessive DC on the power line (as per above quote from PS Audio, possibly cause it to have a buzz...in only one channel?

Sorry it this is a dumb question...just trying to do some research...

 

[LL21]

Does the following excerpt make any sense? The Furutech plugs on my PAD Dominus cables are super heavy and never are fully into the outlet...always at an 85 degree angle to the socket.

"Common Problem #1: Check to see if you have a heavy power cord or an outlet in the wall that is worn out and will not grip. If the hot/neutral/ground prongs on the plug the ground are making intermittent or light contact with the tang on the inside of the outlet, it can cause a hum through the system. The best solution for this is to replace the outlet with an industrial version, available at Home Depot for about $4. The industrial outlets have better gripping and will hold power cables more securely."

 

[LL21]

Latest theory: my Zanden DAC tranformer leaks a little too much DC (as evidenced by hum??)...and this is what has been giving my Gryphon the aggravation/buzz as it is DC-coupled. Make any sense to someone who actually knows something about electronics?? and in only one channel?

would this explain why the Gryphon acts up the more and more it is used...but when shut off for a few days, it comes back 'normal'...ie the DC saturating the core disappates?? i am really out of my depth here...

 

[flez007]

Lloyd - I think you better get rid of the crappy amp!.... I can offer you a fair purchase value for it so you can save on the power cord of the Wavac amp... Just make sure it is re-fitted to 60Hz/118V

 

[LL21]

Thanks...i might just do that. PM me! As for Wavac, i am intrigued but am more tempted by: a) another Gryphon...yikes! or b) Lamm ML2/2.1/2.2 SET.

 

[LL21]

Flez...i PMd you...but your inbox is full!!! let me know when you've created some space, and i'll resend it.

 

[Orb]

Flez...i PMd you...but your inbox is full!!! let me know when you've created some space, and i'll resend it.

I think those of us who send to someone with a full inbox should be given the option to self-destruct that persons inbox!!!
LLoyd, add emotional blackmail to your post by saying you spent hooouurrrs typing it
Cheers
Orb

 

[flez007]

I was not aware of those messages at my Inbox ( for some reason I did not receive any notification of receiving them ) I just deleted the whole inbox content... Sorry!

 

[LL21]

Hi Flez007 - just PM'd you again.

 

[flez007]

Hi Flez007 - just PM'd you again.

Just answered you back

 

[LL21]

Hi...just answered you back.

 

[Orb]

Lloyd,
definite grats on the new Colosseum amp as per: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt....-.-2012-Edition&p=72973&viewfull=1#post72973

BTW did you also own the CJ Gat back at the beginning of this thread or is that also an upgrade?
Anyway got some classic-great gear at your house IMO.
I just love the design and look of the Colosseum.
What I find interesting is that while it states 160w into 8ohms, it has massive power reserve (without the V spec it is a bit of a guestimate though but still seems massive) and this is good.
Have you compared the Colosseum to any other recent amp auditions in your system?

Definitely envious
CHeers
Orb

 

[LL21]

What I find interesting is that while it states 160w into 8ohms, it has massive power reserve (without the V spec it is a bit of a guestimate though but still seems massive) and this is good. Have you compared the Colosseum to any other recent amp auditions in your system? CHeers
Orb

Hi Orb,

The spec in the paperwork says it doubles all the way down to half-ohm and doubles again peak as well...so roughly 5120 watts peak into half-ohm.

I managed to find a demo-unit GAT halfway around the world, and this Gryphon was also someone looking to move onto other amplification so second-hand. it takes a near-obsessive amount of discipline to wait for these one-offs to occur, but i am fortunate to have found them...though i can assure you it is a nail-biting exercise to ship these from around the world, get them thru customs, get them to the manufacturer for voltage conversion, etc, etc...there were so many times when i thought the unit was going to get stuck in customs, get lost in shipment (i know, you'd think this would not be the case, but i can tell u stories...) but i find it worthwhile given that my average price across the whole system is cents on the dollar to retail.

in any event, when i looked for amplification, i considered:
- Krell Evo Ones
- a newer second-hand Gryphon Antileon
- Krell FPB750mcx monos
- much, much older FM Acoustics 411, 611 or 800
- CJ 275 monos...older ones
- Boulder 2060 - 10 years old
- Wavac 833v1.3 - demo steeply discounted
- Lamm ML2.1 or even steeply discounted ML2.2

Of these, i had heard Evo Ones, FPB mono 650s, Antileon and Boulder.

i decided, that despite my very bad experience with 14-year old Antileon, i would go for SS again...the notion of 12 big tubes...or 5 gigantic ones...just seemed unbearable to me. And the esoteric stuff (Wavac)...i got nervous about repairs...though perhaps that is unfounded...cannot honestly say.

I was very, very close to buying Lamm ML2.1 or 2.2...but in the end after lengthy discussions with various owners (some here on WBF) and also directly with Wilson Audio, i elected to let them go...and possibly lose a bit of magic, in return for endless power.

In the end, i think all of these amps are great...and all would have made me very happy (gimme a break...they're all SOTA)...and they were all available at cents on the dollar compared to retail. but i went with Colosseum because i know the Gryphon sound and am very happy with it...i also had some good experience in the past with the Seller and it was relatively new so i was less concerned about repairs. (Fingers crossed! ).