Harmonic Resolution Systems VXR Stand

[LL21]

Lloyd, I am sure Mike is passionate about his products. Joe of Critical Mass Systems is also passionate about his products.

From the little I can deduce the scientific concepts underlying their designs are similar (although they may not agree with that!).

It would be great if you could borrow or purchase a CMS Maxxum and an HRS VXR and perform a careful, side-by-side comparison with your Zanden equipment and report the results!

Would be fun, but [so far] once i have hit a certain level of qualities in the sound, i have stopped experimenting. I do not doubt there is more to extract from the system signal...active vs HRS would be fun imho. I know Audiocrack uses active, so have certainly seen how it works but never experimented with it.

 

[LL21]

Who knows Ron and is it relevant?
The HRS footers changed the sound for the worse in my system and cyclopse had the same results. We both have Vitus SIA 025s so it is significant that we both had the same results. It is a heavy amp and I suppose it is possible that that may be a factor but when I recounted my experience to an experienced distributor he confirmed that the results were not unusual.
In my experience there is often a family sound to different products from the same manufacturer so compare and try before you buy would be my recommendation

Interesting...i do think elastomers are a great concept...but suspect they are weight dependent because at some point the elastomer is not able to take the weight of the component sitting on top...particularly true even of the M3X shelves which are weight-dependent and must be adjusted accordingly. I certainly never bothered to even think about HRS nimbus couplers under the Gryphon (which has Stillpoints...NO HRS Nimbus Couplers). That, the Zanden Transport, the Velodyne and the Wilsons are the only places where the equipmet directly makes contact with Ultra 5s...where as the 2 Zanden power supplies, the Burmester power conditions have Ultra 5s with the HRS Nimbus couplers on top.

 

[spiritofmusic]

My demo of my tt on Accurion/Halcyonics i4 a few years back was interesting, but not quite as radical as I thought it was going to be
The U.K. director was at my place, and brought a whole load of measuring and setup gear
Certainly some hash was eliminated, baselines were more articulated and low end went lower and was cleaner
But it wasn't a "eureka" moment, more a kind of evolutionary step
At that time, electrical power to my system was more an issue, and I sunk my funds into a Westwick 8kVA balanced power transformer which truly upped the ante, and does to this day in my new improved space
I very much believe this Accurion, and Herzan/Spiers And Robertson are all on a par, publishing identical data and servicing the same lab environments
So for me, it's a diversion I may leave in the past, or reinvestigate as a one off uber isoln solution for my tt, despite being minded to go down the Symposium Quantum Signature passive route on my pre existing Isis rack

 

[Uk Paul / Z:Axis Audio]

Would it be unsporting to add my own support system into the mix here? I designed this to be both attractive and functional from a damping / isolation perspective and feel that a good balance was achieved. The combination of isolation and damping via CNC machined acrylic slabs on polymer micro crystals keeps the tech well out of sight, therefore aesthetics can play a bigger part..

 

[LL21]

beautiful!

 

[Steve williams]

.i do think elastomers are a great concept...but suspect they are weight dependent because at some point the elastomer is not able to take the weight of the component sitting on top

as best I know there are elastomers in the CMS racks I use and AFAIK have never had any weight dependent issues

 

[rockitman]

I am ordering another one of Herzan's custom made racks. This time with 3 shelves. I have attached pics of my first rack and the design schematic. My next rack will have the same shelf spacing but now have a 3rd shelf below the top shelf. It will be more rigid than any of these uber expensive racks. "That much I can tell you....!". There is nothing stronger than welded box steel tube construction. I expect this rack to come in around $2k.

 

[LL21]

as best I know there are elastomers in the CMS racks I use and AFAIK have never had any weight dependent issues

Do they have any weight limitations with the CMS? The HRS M3X shelves have to have the feet adjusted depending on the weight...too heavy or too light is sub-optimal.

 

[microstrip]

(...) A lab grade optical breadboard has far better properties than any of the materials used by boutique rack makers in terms of floor and airborne vibrations. The honeycomb structure is far better than granite. Air or active suspension is of course SOTA. (...)

Designing for floor and airborne vibrations is a well studied and common subject. Thinks become tricky when you have to deal with the energy created by the equipment itself and by the airborne vibrations of the equipment. In this aspect the boutique rack makers have a lot to teach to laboratory makers.

 

[Steve williams]

Do they have any weight limitations with the CMS? The HRS M3X shelves have to have the feet adjusted depending on the weight...too heavy or too light is sub-optimal.

There aren't any as far as I know

 

[Ron Resnick]

My demo of my tt on Accurion/Halcyonics i4 a few years back was interesting, but not quite as radical as I thought it was going to be
The U.K. director was at my place, and brought a whole load of measuring and setup gear
Certainly some hash was eliminated, baselines were more articulated and low end went lower and was cleaner
But it wasn't a "eureka" moment, more a kind of evolutionary step
. . .

Does your turntable have an integral suspension? If yes, what type of suspension is it?

 

[spiritofmusic]

No suspension Ron
Al platter, slate plinth, magnetic isoln of platter
There was a definable impvt, it's that it never matched the impvts I got from upping the ante on power, cabling, grounding, so I spent my funds elsewhere
But now w such a blank canvas of a new room, I'm tempted to reinvestigate, esp w good results I heard under a GP Monaco 1.5 a while back

 

[PeterA]

If you guys are going use "lab grade" stuff sold to you by boutique dealers then why don't you go to the sources and by from lab suppliers of this stuff??

Here's a few names for you:
Meles Griot
Newport
Thor Labs

A lab grade optical breadboard has far better properties than any of the materials used by boutique rack makers in terms of floor and airborne vibrations. The honeycomb structure is far better than granite. Air or active suspension is of course SOTA.

It's not cheap but cheaper by far than HRS and I know from using large optical tables with sensitive optics that it works.

Steve mentioned the new TechDAS AF0. Does anyone know if during the design phase they considered replacing the passive air suspension in the AF1 with integrated active servo suspension?

 

[Ron Resnick]

No suspension Ron
Al platter, slate plinth, magnetic isoln of platter
There was a definable impvt, it's that it never matched the impvts I got from upping the ante on power, cabling, grounding, so I spent my funds elsewhere
But now w such a blank canvas of a new room, I'm tempted to reinvestigate, esp w good results I heard under a GP Monaco 1.5 a while back

I thought that was the case. Your turntable is a perfect candidate for a Herzan. I think every suspensionless turntable (maybe there is an exception for a certain suspensionless design somewhere) ideally should sit on a Herzan.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Who's going to be the first brave individual to put all their gear on active shelves, and maybe go even further, and actively isolate their uber heavy spkrs?

I don't think i'm brave, just uncompromising.

other than my server, all my source gear (pre-phono-tt-digital) is all on active suspension. when I get the Aqua transport, I will place it stacked on the Herzan above the Aqua dac.

my dart mono amps have integrated suspended circuit boards, you remove shipping screws once in place. this suspension is similar in concept to the Artesania rack system.

my 750 pound (each of 4 towers) speaker system is not on active suspension; but it does use Wave Kinetics 2NS decoupling footers.

 

[PeterA]

This is an interesting discussion. Do any of the racks or passive or active isolation platforms discussed in this thread claim to address either airborne vibrations hitting the casework of a DAC or preamplifier or those hitting a cartridge, tonearm or platter? What about the vibrations created by a turntable motor reaching the platter about the same time they also migrate down to the top plate of the isolation platform through hard turntable feet designed to drain energy? Can the isolation platform attenuate those vibrations before they have already hit the platter surface or traveled along the tonearm to effect the cartridge?

I think these are just some of the vibrations to which Stehno alludes in his post and why he distinguishes between paths for vibrational energy drainage versus isolation of floor born vibrations. It seems to me that one approach could be through drainage paths toward mass for dissipation or absorption at the level of the component (turntable motor, tonearm, cartridge, platter) and then isolation from floor born vibrations further removed at the interface of the rack feet and floor.

An extreme example would be placing the turntable and other components in a separate room on a massive floating floor into which all internally generated vibrations are drained, and this rack full of gear would be isolated from the vibrating environment of the speakers and ground. In very simplistic terms, micro scale vibrations from the components would be dealt with by energy drainage while macro level vibrations from the environment (air borne and floor borne) would be dealt with by isolation.

Do non-vibrating devices like microscopes behave similarly enough to vibrating audio gear like turntables and electronics to warrant that same approaches for supporting platforms?

 

[DaveyF]

I am ordering another one of Herzan's custom made racks. This time with 3 shelves. I have attached pics of my first rack and the design schematic. My next rack will have the same shelf spacing but now have a 3rd shelf below the top shelf. It will be more rigid than any of these uber expensive racks. "That much I can tell you....!". There is nothing stronger than welded box steel tube construction. I expect this rack to come in around $2k.

Christian, I agree with you. Welded box steel tube construction is the strongest. That is why I still use my Sound Anchor three post stand...built like a tank and when sitting on spikes it is absolutely immovable.


Can be seen in this older picture in the back. All of the other stands have long since gone, but not this one.

 

[BruceD]

Indeed interesting thread and observations--I may ask what about the good old kitty litter Boxes --ala Brightstar--

Has Sand gone back to the Dune?

BruceD

 

[morricab]

Indeed interesting thread and observations--I may ask what about the good old kitty litter Boxes --ala Brightstar--

Has Sand gone back to the Dune?

BruceD

Not trendy enough and too DIY for this crew.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not trendy enough and too DIY for this crew.

no; sand or lead shot absorbs energy and deadens things. and will dampen a spongy floor. it's just not the best answer mostly and there are simply more musical passive treatments to choose from. it use to be that lowering the noise was a good trade off with less energy. but keeping things more linear mostly is better now.