Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC

[Togil]

Have you tried not using the home hub but a separate network and a dedicated switch ?
I got the idea from the recommended setup for a Linn DS system, also make sure everything is gigabit ( this shouldn't matter too much for a wifi connection )

 

[Petter]

Picked up from another forum

Setting the target buffer to 2000ms seems to stop drop outs

But can some help we with how do you measure Wi Fi dBm strength ? is it lowest or highest number ? and what is ideal for this air function ?

 

[gatomusik]

After fiddling in frustration with Air2, I have reminded myself that I bought a D-Premier two years ago because I wanted to avoid the fiddling and frustration of dealing with devices so that I might enjoy the music. I replaced seven bulky wire-entangled boxes with one D-Premier. I hope Devialet has not lost sight of what was the company’s prime attraction: They delivered what they promised.

Devialet’s only mention of Air2 problems, a warning in the help menu to avoid iTunes 11.0.3 is moot; there’s already an iTunes 11.0.4. An announcement from the manufacturer acknowledging problems with Air2 and that a fix is imminent would be reassuring. But the only communication we receive is the extravagant marketing lingo on the rest of the site. Corporate hubris has done in many fine products.

 

[IanG-UK]

Have you tried not using the home hub but a separate network and a dedicated switch ?
I got the idea from the recommended setup for a Linn DS system, also make sure everything is gigabit ( this shouldn't matter too much for a wifi connection )

The Home Hub feeds the Airport Express so it is easy just to disconnect the ethernet link and just have the Airport Express with wireless links to the Devialet and the MacBook Pro.

It worked for a while (blip-free) and then lost connectivity entirely.

There is almost certainly a correlation between length of time connected and blip rate. If I return to my normal connection set-up, as recommended by Devialet, namely using BT Home Hub 4 (wifi off) feeding Time Capsule (just the Airport Express bit) (wifi on) (802.11n, channel 40), I get MacBook Pro readings of signal -51dbm, noise - 86dbm, and Air 2.0 reading -53dbm (so pretty much the same). And in the first 15 minutes hardly any blips. Now, after 3 hours, worst case 5-10 blips every minute.

Not good.

 

[IanG-UK]

Picked up from another forum

But can some help we with how do you measure Wi Fi dBm strength ? is it lowest or highest number ? and what is ideal for this air function ?

https://help.devialet.com/entries/24007942-How-to-set-up-AIR-2

The link above (pretty difficult to find which is crazy) shows a wifi signal strength of -59dbm on Thierry's (a Devialet guy's) Air 2.0. I'm getting an even better -53dbm. So, strictly, it's the higher the better - or more understandably the lower the numeric (ignoring the minus sign) number the better. The wifi reading from my MacBook Pro was -51dbm so pretty much the same. These numbers should be ok in terms of signal strength.

If you are on Mac you can download iStumbler and this will show, in tabular form, all the networks in your vicinity (there are 10 in mine) with the level (rated 1-10 with 5 or more regarded as ok) and the signal/noise/channel. My connection is a 59% signal, 17% noise on channel 40 and a 60% signal, 15% noise on channel 10. The readings are in real time so change continuously.

I believe these levels are pretty good and certainly sufficient for a good enough signal.

But this does not exempt the connectivity from blips which a number of users are experiencing.

By the way, your wifi signal will vary with even a modest change in the positioning of your router. Even with both positions having Devialet/Airport Express line of sight, moving from 5m apart with the Airport Express 0.5m above ground to 2m apart with the Airport Express 1.5m above ground improves the wifi signal from -53dbm to -49dbm.

 

[IanG-UK]

On the matter of routers: Devialet suggests in the help page subject labelled "How to set-up an optimized network to stream" that Apple devices are the routers of choice. Well, yes and no. I purchased and installed a new Airport Extreme just before the introduction of 6.0 and 2.0. The new router worked perfectly with the previous version of Air, but is now troublesome with Air2.

Also, it seems that the longer the music plays the more frequent the dropouts, so that 10 minutes on the interruptions are too distracting for pleasurable listening--yet the signal strength of the wifi remains constant.

One thing you and I might try on the Devialet Air 2.0 Settings drop down (in General Settings) is to reduce the target device buffer from the default 2000ms to, say, 100ms.

This may (just my theory) decrease the data packet sizes which presumably means they are more likely to be sent and received fully intact and therefore fewer are rerequested. So the system does not have to "overwork" and it remains in coherent shape, with no or few dropouts.

By comparison, it could be that if, with a big default packet size, an ever expanding rerequest action is taking place, then over time this creates ever more frequent drop outs as the system fails to cope.

Just a thought. I shall test.

 

[Nightmare]

Your theory should be right. In practice, as mentioned in the german thread (here), a down setting of the buffer (under 2.000ms) leads to less or even no failures after using the Devialet for a while, but might cause early totally drop outs - maybe depending on your WiFi situation.

 

[Togil]

Interesting also that the presence of mobile phones seems to be a disturbing factor.

I can't contribute my own results at the moment as I don't have any speakers here, and once the new Devialet units arrive I will be using Ethernet ...

 

[murrayp]

I read somewhere that some mobile phones share the same frequencies as wifi. I gather they (frequency) hop around though so may interfere at one time but not the next. Tonight I had quite fine reception for some hours then suddenly very poor / crashing reception to my DP. I turned ever other computer /wifi connection in our house off to no avail. When I unplugged the portable phone it all came right. When I plugged it back it it remained right.

I gather you can buy portable phones which operate at higher frequencies to avoid clashes with wifi - that will be the next step here.

Our 1100W microwave also takes out reception - for whatever reason, but it does.

It seems one can try to make wifi operate perfectly and continuously but it never can if reception is being obliterated by something else......

Murray

 

[murrayp]

A little research tends to confirm above suspicions...... from http://www.101phones.com/content/info/uniden-buying-guide.html
DECT 6.0 1.9GHz seems to be the answer.... they are marketed as wi-fi friendly here in New Zealand

FREQUENCY
Cordless phones operate on various radio frequencies, which are set by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). The four most common frequencies today are 900MHz, 2.4GHz, 5.8GHz and DECT 6.0:

900 MHz Cordless Phones
Currently the most common frequency for cordless phones, 900MHz phones may offer a greater range than other frequencies. However, the 900MHz spectrum is cluttered and may result in interference with baby monitors and other 900MHz cordless phones. Radio scanners can also easily pick up this band.

2.4 GHz Cordless Phones
2.4GHz phones offer better clarity and security than 900MHz, but may experience some interference with microwave ovens and wireless networking (wi-fi) products.

5.8 GHz Cordless Phones
The most advanced cordless phones available, 5.8GHz phones transmit on a new, open frequency and have the least chance for interference. They will not interfere with wireless networking (wi-fi) products.

DECT 6.0 Cordless Phones
DECT 6.0 operates on the 1.9GHz frequency. Though newly approved in the US, this frequency has been used for many yars in Europe and can increase call clarity and security. The wi-fi friendly DECT technology easily integrates into homes with wi-fi and internet services because the 1.9GHz frequency is exclusive to DECT, making it interference free for cordless communications.

 

[bernardl]

It would be interesting to study the correlation between iPhone usage and D1er wifi issues.

Cheers,
Bernard

 

[Fischerp]

I too am among the somewhat frustrated people with a D-Premier that has drop-outs in the music. I am using 6.0.6, Air2.0, iTunes 11.0.4. I have followed the 'best' option for a wireless network. My signal strength is at a constant -31/32 dBm. I had one of the guys from the dealer I bought it from out today since I have exhausted all my ideas. I have been in contact with the guys at Devialet on an ongoing basis. They are always quick to respond and try to be helpful. Yet, I still have drop-outs and/or static at some of the higher resolutions. The most frustrating part is it isn't consistent. Some days 192 streams happily without problems, others sounds like an early transistor radio. Most likely the new version with ethernet will be in my home soon. I switched from a Linn system which only uses ethernet. Never any drop-outs but the audio quality is nowhere near the Devialet.
When it is working well, the Devialet mated with a pair of Raidho C1.1 speakers with Crystal Cable is audio nirvana!

 

[IanG-UK]

I too am among the somewhat frustrated people with a D-Premier that has drop-outs in the music. I am using 6.0.6, Air2.0, iTunes 11.0.4. I have followed the 'best' option for a wireless network. My signal strength is at a constant -31/32 dBm. I had one of the guys from the dealer I bought it from out today since I have exhausted all my ideas. I have been in contact with the guys at Devialet on an ongoing basis. They are always quick to respond and try to be helpful. Yet, I still have drop-outs and/or static at some of the higher resolutions. The most frustrating part is it isn't consistent. Some days 192 streams happily without problems, others sounds like an early transistor radio. Most likely the new version with ethernet will be in my home soon. I switched from a Linn system which only uses ethernet. Never any drop-outs but the audio quality is nowhere near the Devialet.
When it is working well, the Devialet mated with a pair of Raidho C1.1 speakers with Crystal Cable is audio nirvana!

You are getting very good signal strength at -31/32dbm. Even though my router is only 2m from my Devialet pair and 2m from my MacBook Pro I am only getting -49dbm though I guess that should be sufficient. I am using a Time Capsule but simply for its Airport Express router. I use selected wifi channels 10 and 40 since no nearby routers in other houses seem to use these.

Could I ask what router/channel(s) you are using? And what physical location?

The sound quality is stunning though, like you, I get dropouts - none at first but becoming far too distracting after, say, 30 minutes listening. I suspect it is a data packet rerequest/buffer management problem which hopefully Devialet can fix soon in Air 2.1.

 

[tordles]

I too am among the somewhat frustrated people with a D-Premier that has drop-outs in the music. I am using 6.0.6, Air2.0, iTunes 11.0.4. I have followed the 'best' option for a wireless network. My signal strength is at a constant -31/32 dBm. I had one of the guys from the dealer I bought it from out today since I have exhausted all my ideas. I have been in contact with the guys at Devialet on an ongoing basis. They are always quick to respond and try to be helpful. Yet, I still have drop-outs and/or static at some of the higher resolutions. The most frustrating part is it isn't consistent. Some days 192 streams happily without problems, others sounds like an early transistor radio. Most likely the new version with ethernet will be in my home soon. I switched from a Linn system which only uses ethernet. Never any drop-outs but the audio quality is nowhere near the Devialet.
When it is working well, the Devialet mated with a pair of Raidho C1.1 speakers with Crystal Cable is audio nirvana!

Hi Fischerp,

Like you ive exhausted almost every option and button on the Devialet to fix the issues with the audio drop-outs and also the radio static noise. From my research and trial and error I have found the following.

That the radio static like noise almost solely happens when I do changes to the audio quality settings in air 2.0 while "live." With live I mean having an active stream. If you experience static, quit the 2.0 app and start it up again, and if you want to make changes to the streaming quality make sure you click the disable streaming button prior to making changes. My impression from monitoring the network activity is that for every time you change it while live your computer sends out two identical streams and essentially overloads your equipment and creates that god-awful static. Today I have mine at 24/192 with almost great results (the short drop outs and complete drop-outs still happen)

I will play more with the buffer settings tomorrow, but it seems that setting them on the shorter end-- as suggested in this forum -- yields better results.

Hope that helps. I spoke to Devialet today and they acknowledged the fact that, as seen in this forum, many people are complaining and that they are working on a solution now.

Tordles

 

[Fischerp]

You are getting very good signal strength at -31/32dbm. Even though my router is only 2m from my Devialet pair and 2m from my MacBook Pro I am only getting -49dbm though I guess that should be sufficient. I am using a Time Capsule but simply for its Airport Express router. I use selected wifi channels 10 and 40 since no nearby routers in other houses seem to use these.

Could I ask what router/channel(s) you are using? And what physical location?

The sound quality is stunning though, like you, I get dropouts - none at first but becoming far too distracting after, say, 30 minutes listening. I suspect it is a data packet rerequest/buffer management problem which hopefully Devialet can fix soon in Air 2.1.

I am using a Time Capsule for my internet use and an AirPort Extreme for an audio only network set on channel 6. I don't have the 5 ghz on since the Devialet isn't compatible with it. The Extreme is sitting on a shelf approx 1m above the Devialet. The Time Capsule sits behind a sofa which is approx 3.5m from the Extreme. They are all connected via ethernet over mains. Usually my laptop is in between the two. I have moved the Extreme sometimes 1cm and the signal strength changes dramatically. We experimented today and set it directly on top of the Devialet and got up to the low -20s. Kind of defeats the wireless attraction though. I set the buffer to 5000ms on the delay to 250ms on Air2 which helps with the dropouts but doesn't eliminate them.
Hope that helps.

 

[Petter]

hi

That was interesting..i did simplify my set up when i bought the Devialet,moved the music files over to the iMac,bought a time capsule for use as a sender in a dedicated network and back up,so i did set up own network with the Devialet name,the time capsule is on the right side close to the iMac.
Then i bought a airport express and connected it also to the same network and placed it in the stereo rack. Devialet is 4-5 meters from the iMac in the same rom

Still i only get 50 to 55 dbm ?? ,i haven't set the network on a special channel,live in a building with some apartments so maybe that is a problem ??


Any special tips for setup a own network with the Devialet ?

A other thing is that my Audio pro dongels interference with the network when i try to set that up ,so shutted that system down

 

[IanG-UK]

I am using a Time Capsule for my internet use and an AirPort Extreme for an audio only network set on channel 6. I don't have the 5 ghz on since the Devialet isn't compatible with it. The Extreme is sitting on a shelf approx 1m above the Devialet. The Time Capsule sits behind a sofa which is approx 3.5m from the Extreme. They are all connected via ethernet over mains. Usually my laptop is in between the two. I have moved the Extreme sometimes 1cm and the signal strength changes dramatically. We experimented today and set it directly on top of the Devialet and got up to the low -20s. Kind of defeats the wireless attraction though. I set the buffer to 5000ms on the delay to 250ms on Air2 which helps with the dropouts but doesn't eliminate them.
Hope that helps.

Thank you.

I'm intrigued by your statement about Devialet not being compatible with 5GHz. I don't doubt your statement but ... in Airport Utility I have the 2.4GHz set ay Channel 10 and the 5GHz set at Channel 40. And when I check in my Apple System Information, current network, DevialetAudio, it shows the channel as 40! In other (non-current) networks, DevialetAudio, it shows the channel as 10 along with lots of other channels as used by my neighbours. This data is confirmed using iStumbler where there are the two prime DevialetAudio networks (my only two networks) and eight others of much lower signal.

I'll try some slight movements of my Time Capsule to see if that enhances the signal. But I think the dropouts are a different issue.

There is a reference on the previous page of this thread to a German audio forum where there is much discussion about buffer levels and buffer management which may be at the heart of the dropout issue.

I've asked Devialet about this, which they have acknowledged, and I'll post their findings.

 

[IanG-UK]

hi

That was interesting..i did simplify my set up when i bought the Devialet,moved the music files over to the iMac,bought a time capsule for use as a sender in a dedicated network and back up,so i did set up own network with the Devialet name,the time capsule is on the right side close to the iMac.
Then i bought a airport express and connected it also to the same network and placed it in the stereo rack. Devialet is 4-5 meters from the iMac in the same rom

Still i only get 50 to 55 dbm ?? ,i haven't set the network on a special channel,live in a building with some apartments so maybe that is a problem ??


Any special tips for setup a own network with the Devialet ?



A other thing is that my Audio pro dongels interference with the network when i try to set that up ,so shutted that system down

I think your signal level is normal (mine is -50dbm with a similar setup). Fischerp is getting -31dbm but I think that is exceptional. If you look at the example on the Devialet website it shows a signal level of -59dbm which they must have been happy with.

Like you I used "Automatic" for the channel but then switched to a specific channel not used by any neighbours. If you download iStumbler it will give you this information. Similar signal and hopefully less prone to interference.

I did try a separate network simply by disconnecting the WAN ethernet cable from the Time Capsule but I lost signal after a few minutes. According to the Devialet website Air should work in either mode.

If you are avoiding dropouts that is encouraging!

 

[Fischerp]

Thierry at Devialet told me it is only 2.4GHz. I had tried 5GHz but it would never connect so I asked Devialet.
I received an another update from Thierry today regarding dropouts. He said they are aware of the problem and are working on it. It applies to robust networks as well as weaker ones.

I also made the audio only network hidden so at least only the Devialet is using it.

 

[gatomusik]

I think we should resist Devialet’s efforts to skew the Air2 problem toward the customer and his router. The same complaint about performance is all over the forums, in English, French, and German--and likely in languages I have not investigated---and on Facebook. The regular pattern users report, even those with exemplary routers and signal strength, is that dropouts eventually emerge over time and increase in frequency as the signal plays--and that high resolution material is even more troublesome, or unplayable. The flaw is in the Air2 implementation, the deflections and kind words from Devialet notwithstanding. We have in our hands a $16,000 apparatus that does not function as advertised.