Just go and buy the darn thing already!
I'm deliberating on a small number of choices ahead of any possible RS1500-K/C order.
No rush on this, please keep contributing
Help me w/reservations about taking the R2R tape plunge...
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
- Start date
I'm deliberating on a small number of choices ahead of any possible RS1500-K/C order.
No rush on this, please keep contributing
Bonzo, may I ask why out of the VAST number of audiofools continually upgrading and making us aware of their thoughts online, I'm the one that gets all your pithy comments?
I have completed tt/digital/amp/spkrs upgrades, and only something absolutely compelling will make me swap anything out. Cables and racks, power and grounding all done. Only dedicated lines in the new house planned. Shun Mooks are the only whole new area of expenditure planned, and maybe a big wad spent on a new room.
So, can we please get past the notion that I'm desparately needing to upgrade.
The tape decision is a sort of luxury, parallel dimension decision, not a standard upgrade path.
Try and offer practical advice, or even empathy for a change. Or just say FFS Marc, just stop talking about tape already. But snipey comments mean I'll pass on your input.
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IMHO there is a lot of rationale in buying most hifi. The key part of an hobby is enjoyment, there is nothing non rationale in enjoying great sound quality and pursuing it.
As any hobby it has usually a strong amateur and very personnel approach, that is part of it. In general, it is known that excessive rationalization will spoil any hobby.
Micro, of course it's a hobby, and can often feel uplifting and frustrating in equal measure, and often simultaneously.
The tape dilemma for me doesn't link to any other decision rationale.
The closest thing might be making a decision to go to spending big on dozens or hundreds of Hot Stampers.
If I came online, and said I was considering breaking the bank to start replacing many key albums in my collection with those that are stupidly pricey, for the promise of exhalted vinyl bliss, I'd possibly rationalise it in the same way as I've been trying to do so re the move to tape.
Al has PMd me w/further thoughts as to what he's revealed here, as has DaveyF in the last 24 hrs, and to both of them I am most grateful.
Straight talking is having it's effects...
Hi Spirit -- although I'm catching up with the multiple digital delivery formats (an AN 4.1X Balanced DAC has been our sole DAC...for years), I rather do enjoy analog.
Studer...Barco...rarefied-strata, performance analog!
There is no better mistake than invest in a Reel to Reel deck and tapes.
Oh, Amir -- you're bad!
LOL
No, it was a mistake for me too.
:b Fascinating.
Hi Spirit -- although I'm catching up with the multiple digital delivery formats (an AN 4.1X Balanced DAC has been our sole DAC...for years), I rather do enjoy analog.
Studer...Barco...rarefied-strata, performance analog!
I have an abiding fascination w/analog, like most of us do here. In so many areas, the tech matured years ago, but performance impvts are squeezed out by greater and greater engineering solutions.
My 1968 Citroen DS21, created in 1955, and other than the engine, already ahead of it's time, and many cars today, 60 years on, just bow at it's wheels - oleo pneumatic suspension being the endpoint for the most comfortable ride of all time, and fluid hydraulics controlling ride, and steering, brakes, gears. OMG. Today, cars are stringent on emissions (VW Audi group excepted LOL), but that's about it. Analog holistic advancements set a half century ago and refined for years after.
My Barco crt, as complicated and overkill in 1998 as the Studers were in their day, 96kHz refresh rate unheard of in any digital projector under $100k, and black levels no digital can match. Two decades ago. Impvts wrought by amazing techs like Eisenmann and his magic circuit boards.
Turntables, the DD Technics SP10 in the 70s/80s puts a lot of current SOTA contenders to shame re unbeatable torque/speed stability, and even DDK's American Sound tt from the 70s seems to have the beating of the AF1. SP10 even more impressive now the analog maniacs get to work on it's plinth etc.
So, how can I resist getting involved in one of, if not THE, greatest banners of analog superiority, tape/R2R?
But for me, this has to be at a level a little below the true OCD guys here like Mike, I cannot afford or justify anything more than the level I'm going to stick at, which will NEVER be uber Studer/UHA levels.
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Wow - this quite a thread! If I could just add a few of my observations along this audio journey.... we all start somewhere... I with some Quicksilver KT88's many years ago.... against my old Yamaha receiver... sounded great. The same goes for the TT & phono stage... MM moved to MC with cartridges... & most of the fun with LP was to find the gems in the haystacks...
We finally graduate to the fancy systems I read about in this forum...
Then I happened onto tape... with a connection to classical music, & musicians, one day I happened to see a Studer A80 for sale for $1000 at a shop... Glen Gould had 2 of these with him when he lived at the Inn on The Park (hotel in Toronto).... he covered the windows so he didn't know if it was day or night & just recorded whatever & when he wanted... CBC has these tapes...
These decks in their day cost 18K, now they are boat anchors, & I could play with one for 1K !!!.... so that was my start in tape. I recorded with the stock Studer, but as audiophiles, we are never satisfied... after 7-9 years this has morphed into my current system - all Western Electric 437a & 300b based mic-pre for the tubed mics, Bendex 6900 gold pin recording amp & Western Electric 437a playback amp...
We all have fancy TTs, but if you think, all those great early Decca's started their life as a tape, so even a simple tape machine has the potential to better an expensive TT rig because there is no format change.... If you think what has to happen to the tape to end up with an LP, it's a miracle that dragging a diamond needle thru some grooves can sound so good.... that is until you really hear what tape can do... the density & mass in the sound that tape has is unattainable in LP....IMHO
So, for the analogue junky, you must at least HEAR what tape can do.... Your proposed simple system will blow you away - the key is the outboard amp... King Cello, Bottlehead, all will be fine.... you do not need to spend $$$$$ to be wowed... My 2c worth... Trust me, when your GF hears this, she will smile....
We finally graduate to the fancy systems I read about in this forum...
Then I happened onto tape... with a connection to classical music, & musicians, one day I happened to see a Studer A80 for sale for $1000 at a shop... Glen Gould had 2 of these with him when he lived at the Inn on The Park (hotel in Toronto).... he covered the windows so he didn't know if it was day or night & just recorded whatever & when he wanted... CBC has these tapes...
These decks in their day cost 18K, now they are boat anchors, & I could play with one for 1K !!!.... so that was my start in tape. I recorded with the stock Studer, but as audiophiles, we are never satisfied... after 7-9 years this has morphed into my current system - all Western Electric 437a & 300b based mic-pre for the tubed mics, Bendex 6900 gold pin recording amp & Western Electric 437a playback amp...
We all have fancy TTs, but if you think, all those great early Decca's started their life as a tape, so even a simple tape machine has the potential to better an expensive TT rig because there is no format change.... If you think what has to happen to the tape to end up with an LP, it's a miracle that dragging a diamond needle thru some grooves can sound so good.... that is until you really hear what tape can do... the density & mass in the sound that tape has is unattainable in LP....IMHO
So, for the analogue junky, you must at least HEAR what tape can do.... Your proposed simple system will blow you away - the key is the outboard amp... King Cello, Bottlehead, all will be fine.... you do not need to spend $$$$$ to be wowed... My 2c worth... Trust me, when your GF hears this, she will smile....
I bolded your comment otherwise it could be lost in your very interesting post - I also got my A80's in similar conditions. The best one is finishing a bearing replacement session
, next weekend I will carry the measurements, then listening again! BTW, I must get one of your tapes soon - they must sound great on the SoundLab's! Unfortunately getting tapes through the postal customs is very long and expensive process.
Attachments
Unfortunately now Studer A80's are very expensive.... but your nice pic shows the beautiful castings.... it's built like a fine Swiss watch... 2 Hex screwdrivers can take the whole thing apart...
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Many of us are from the analog generation and it's satisfying to go back in time.
Great examples! Is the Citroen a convertible
That is a totally cool position.
Well, there had been some major disagreement on this. A few pages back, the consensus amongst the big hitters here was that it was pointless going for anything less than a Studer a810, or top specced UHA. Subsequently, I made a decision that my participation was either going to be at the level I've chosen ie Technics RS1500, but maxxing out w/King Cello amp, or not at all.
I spoke to Mike Valentine y'day at the Windsor Show nr London, and as an owner of Studers and Nagra digital decks, and a veteran of audiophile recording direct to vinyl, he confirmed a sorted Technics 1500 w/King Cello at the price I've been quoted was a totally solid option.
If I do indeed dive into this pool, I'm making a vow not to trial the uber Studers, and instead max performance the traditional way - put it on a good rack, upgrade cables and power cords, isolate w/ Shun Mooks.
A big part of my affection of tape is watching those reels try to hypnotise me, and I'm not the greatest design fan of the Studers and Nagras where the reels are more horizontal. And I just can't fitting their bulk in my room.
Many of us are from the analog generation and it's satisfying to go back in time.
Great examples! Is the Citroen a convertible
That is a totally cool position.
No luck. Most are hard top, and sell in good condition like mine for $30k-$50k.
You can throw $250k at a convertible DS and not secure a sale.
They don't look great w/hood up, brilliant when down.
The standard sedan design still makes me warm inside whenever I approach my Ruby parked on the street.
My first foray into RTR was with a Technics 1500 using a wired out Nortronics head and a King/Cello tape pre. It sounds great and will get you what you want out of the best tapes. I still have the setup.
What a great story, and scary as Hell
!I'll try and indulge in 0.5% of the complexity of your narrative, and get happy as a result.
Good to know Christian, hoping so if I take the plunge. Have a good contact who's providing the 1500and is working w/Charles "Stellavox" to provide the King Cello.
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