Help me w/reservations about taking the R2R tape plunge...

[spiritofmusic]

Exactly right. I have been contemplating getting into tape for about two years. Every time I listen to tape, I realize how superb it is....and how in some ways it cannot be beaten by almost all vinyl. Then I think about the cost, the hassle and frankly the lack of software compared to vinyl. So, i have opted to spend my audio $$ on vinyl, because you can always improve it somehow and there is always that title that you want and need. I guess IF I had an open ended budget, tape would be a definite, AFTER I have satisfied all of my vinyl requirements.
Couple of weeks ago, I had the distinct pleasure of hearing Sam ( C1 Ferrari's) magnificent Studer A820..playing several of the tape project tapes.... Sublime. BUT, I still came to the same conclusion as above....for me.YMMV.

Dave, I'm going to PM you if you don't mind, your reply has hit the "zone of truth and commonsense" ie the one that chimes w/me.
I don't know about anyone else, but I find the best way to make decisions that are important, that are pricey, or have intricate pros and cons (which audio, and esp this area definitely applies) is after hours brainstorming yes/no yes/no/yes/no/don't know ad infinitum, is to go to sleep, wake up the next morning and just allow a decision to float to consciousness while you're not struggling mentally.
And that's what's happened this morning after spending pretty much the whole evening y'day to and fro on this thread and getting about 6 hours in the sack.
I'll let you know all know what I feel this morning when I speak a bit more to Dave.

 

[microstrip]

Exactly right. I have been contemplating getting into tape for about two years. Every time I listen to tape, I realize how superb it is....and how in some ways it cannot be beaten by almost all vinyl. Then I think about the cost, the hassle and frankly the lack of software compared to vinyl. So, i have opted to spend my audio $$ on vinyl, because you can always improve it somehow and there is always that title that you want and need. I guess IF I had an open ended budget, tape would be a definite, AFTER I have satisfied all of my vinyl requirements.
Couple of weeks ago, I had the distinct pleasure of hearing Sam ( C1 Ferrari's) magnificent Studer A820..playing several of the tape project tapes.... Sublime. BUT, I still came to the same conclusion as above....for me.YMMV.

Very often we debate how we should separate the audio budget in a system. But perhaps it should be interesting quantify the ratio budget versus audio pleasure. Audio pleasure can have two components - intensity and time length. This can make any analysis very difficult - what are we considering to be the crucial aspect?

IMHO people own R2R tape for the pleasure of listening to the most satisfying source. For the pleasure of having an extreme audio experience a few times at their will. I have read thousands of reports of auditions, but the experiences of audiophiles listening to tape in great systems systematically manage to transmit more of what people have felt and are in agreement with my own perception of the great sound quality of the Tapeproject tapes. Should I deduce that it is only because they have greater expertise in communication and better writing skills than digital listeners? I prefer to consider that it is because they have more to write - YMMV!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Micro, I concur. When I get an upgrade that works, I can often end up listening a particular lp or cd repeatedly.
There's no doubt that Rollins Sax Colossus is a fave album of mine, it most likely is magnificent on tape, and I could see myself playing it on repeat everyday for a year. And I may get a buzz of a different order.
There's a lot to be said to still walk away from a situation if it's truly pleasurable, and consider the big picture.
I'm into vinyl obviously, and if all that was available were pretty pricey Hot Stampers, the same considerations would apply.
Every contentious life decision needs to be taken on it's individual merits.
In my case, a lot of thought went into running a classic car. But my beloved Citroen is almost a daily driver, and I spend 2x more on it than I would a modern model, and as such it still proves to be a practical proposition. Certainly more than tape, which will never be a "daily listen". If I only could use my Citroen sporadically, I wouldn't have invested.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I have one way into this. I cannot rationalise paying out $10k-$20k+ for a deck, when the total number of tapes I'm likely to ever own is 50-100.
The Stellavox just featured on the Part Time Audiophile show report is hitting the sweet spot for me, c$4k, and not the size/stance of a pinball machine.
Much as I love these no-compromise big boys like the Studers that Mike and Steve own, I totally lose it w/the smaller more intimate design ethic of Nagra, and this Stella.
If my journey into considering Stellavox goes well (just emailed Charles), I'll see where I end up. The logic in just dipping into an uber pricey format sporadically makes NO sense, but maybe I should really view this as going on the occasional exotic holiday, a much anticipated intermittent Michelin Five Star restaurant visit, supping from bottle of really special but exhorbitant whiskey.

God, I'm talking myself into it again. How come I'm able to walk away succesfully from spending on drop dead gorgeous horns, or an uber tt final upgrade, but not from this concept, quite possibly the craziest decision I could ever make?

 

[Argonaut]

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJ9yNFVIFM[/video]

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hmm, that one isn't going to make my shopping list.
Stellavox hits the spot re price point/performance/design-size.
We'll see.

 

[microstrip]

Hmm, that one isn't going to make my shopping list.
Stellavox hits the spot re price point/performance/design-size.
We'll see.

The Stellavox is an excellent choice, particularly if you want to avoid monster-weight and size machines, but can be expensive. What is the model you are considering?

 

[Argonaut]

The Stellavox is an excellent choice, particularly if you want to avoid monster-weight and size machines, but can be expensive. What is the model you are considering?

I would recommend that spirit quest around for an Su8 or SP9 late production Stello, altho they will command top range prices alla the Nagra IV-S.

 

[NorthStar]

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJ9yNFVIFM[/video]

Magic.

 

[rockitman]

The Stellavox is an excellent choice, particularly if you want to avoid monster-weight and size machines, but can be expensive. What is the model you are considering?

Are you talking about the portable stellavox ? Not ideal as they wont play 10" reels without the funky belt driven extender unit...far from wow and flutter free. Good for some playing..not good for long term imho.

 

[Bruce B]

Are you talking about the portable stellavox ? Not ideal as they wont play 10" reels without the funky belt driven extender unit...far from wow and flutter free. Good for some playing..not good for long term imho.

Does this mean every time you change a reel, you need to take the belts off and replace? That would be a non-starter for me.

 

[stellavox]

Don't have to "replace" anything.

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/...war-tapes-of-charles-king-with-audio-note-uk/ Who'se the OLD FART?

Charles

 

[Bruce B]

Don't have to "replace" anything.

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/...war-tapes-of-charles-king-with-audio-note-uk/ Who'se the OLD FART?

Charles

How do you change tapes? If the reel is between the belt and arm, wouldn't you have to remove/replace the belt? Is there a YouTube video showing this. You know a lot more about this than I certainly do.

 

[c1ferrari]

I'm a sucker for the Golden Age of analog technology.
My Barco crt projector is late 90's vintage, and beats any digital projection below $50k.
And so, R2R/tape and me are made for each other.
Gosh, I'm doing my best to convince myself .

Hehe
That's great...I've been looking at Barcos, too!

 

[c1ferrari]

first off; mentioning multiple tape decks without a shout out to the grand puba Ki Choi is sacrilegious. he puts us all to shame.

all audio gear is cool. RTR decks are way cool. something about those spinning reels.

being able to dub tapes one to another allows you to share them.

1/4" or 1/2" is handy.

chicks dig tape decks.

Yeah, Sonny is cool with the Studers!

 

[c1ferrari]

I need to find a Delorean so I can head back to the 60's with a Merging Horus and Pyramix

Dude, you are too funny!

 

[rockitman]

How do you change tapes? If the reel is between the belt and arm, wouldn't you have to remove/replace the belt? Is there a YouTube video showing this. You know a lot more about this than I certainly do.

IIRC...they are somewhat elastic...they snap off the hub like a taught rubber band.

 

[Bruce B]

IIRC...they are somewhat elastic...they snap off the hub like a taught rubber band.

That's what I thought it looks like....

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hehe
That's great...I've been looking at Barcos, too!

Sam, the Barcos are imho up there in analog video terms on a par, and directly equivalent to, the big Studers re sound. Be prepared to spend big, via Curt Palme as one suggestion north of $10k for ideally a 909, or my next level down 1209s.
4' x 2' x 1', and 200lb.
You'd better make sure your ceiling can take it!!!
One big advantage they have over digital is the refresh rate of 96kHz over standard digital of max 48kHz. This means that Blu Ray judder which I am VERY sensitive to, is awful on most digital projectors, but only borderline on the Barco.
Like Studer on SQ, there is an almost limitless ceiling to PQ w/the Barco, and the experience is so enveloping. And I even enjoy "lowly" Laserdisc and even VHS on it.

Re the Stella, the issues on 10.5" reels are the only reason to be reticent.

 

[spiritofmusic]

"2Reel Or Not 2Reel, That Is The Question"...

...the q indeed.
Firstly, sorry for the pun, maybe my worst one yet.
Secondly, I wanted to thank all the guys who contributed so fully and generously w/their opinions and advice re my thread about conflicting getting into tape.
It has been the most fun time I've had on a thread, even if it is of my own making - no pesky subjective v objective blind alleys for a start!
Mike Lavigne, Steve Williams, Microstrip, Amirm, Rockitman, Blizzard, Al M, RonR and DaveyF helped out a lot, I managed to have comms w/Ed Pong and esp Bob Yarlung, the latter whom I spoke on the phone for a good twenty minutes.
And discussion w/a friend of Mike's, Richard, and Charles, the Stellavox man, all v. enlightening.

And after 2-3 days brainstorming, and arguing w/myself, I decide "Not 2Reel".

The reason not to go tape is not the substantial cost of entry. I have the $5k-$25k needed to get in, from J-Corder Technics 1500s/Charle's Stellavox to Greg Beron's top UHA.
Also not the cost of tapes and limited titles. I finally "got" that it is just an upper echelon, a luxury, full of quality, and to be enjoyed and invested in at intervals.
I fully get that it's a total treat, and esp for all those incl me for whom analog remains the epitome, it's not just King of the Hill, but Emperor Of the Known Universe.

No, the issues for me actually start after I make the decision to reconcile cost and luxury status. Now the journey evolves into maintaining the deck, help w/setup and alignment, care w/storing tapes. I'm really struggling to readily find anyone on the grapevine to link up with to make this journey together with.
And there is NO point getting into this half arsed, a costly hobby would be a total waste. No, all in, fully committed w/backup, or not at all.
There's no doubt if I didn't have my great guys to help me service my 1968 Citroen DS21 and my Barco 1209s crt projector, both paragons of analog magnificence, and both challenging w/out professional backup, I would not have invested to begin.

I also have a reliable rule of thumb. If I have a complicated life decision/spending choice to make, and I am seriously conflicted last thing before bed (apologies to my long suffering GF), but I wake up calm and collected and a choice emerges in the stillness of morning, I go w/my morning decision. And the last two mornings I've woken to feel I should not go into tape.

And that's where I am, and likely to stay.

So thank you one and all, I've swayed quite a few ways, but despite being sad I'm not entering a potentially joyous area of audio, I'm sanguine I'm making the right decision.

Tape, you could have been sooo fine, but it was never meant to be.