Hi-Fi is NOT a subjective hobby.

[Geoffkait]

I use a vector scope and look at the stereo image in a Lissajous pattern.

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Yikes!

 

[Geoffkait]

Great Hifi sound doesn't have to cost a lot of money either. Even though stereo world should have abandoned RCA/unbalanced connections a long time ago which is a source of a lot of issues.

I got rid of expensive HiFi gear some time ago. I went to a low-cost portable CD headphone system that I can tweak to my heart’s content. No more house AC, no more huge speaker cables, interconnects, digital cable. No more humongous transformers or big honking capacacitors, no more fuses, no more room treatments.

No more pencils, no more books, no more teacher’s dirty looks. The sound quality I have now is actually better than my big systems of Yore, Quad 57, Fulton, Class A tube amp/Sennheiser 600s. It’s not what you have it’s what you do with it.

 

[hopkins]

I found this review interesting. He explains, starting around 3:30, how he used EQ to adjust the frequency response and it led to slightly different perceptions of imaging and depth.

I personally don't know what to make of this but perhaps some can relate to his explanations?

 

[ssfas]

I trust you’re not implying that everyone who spends “a lot of money” on some HiFi speakers or cables or DAC or quantum thingamabob is wasting their money, but it looks like that’s is what you’re saying.

The lower reaches of HiFi? Geez, I thought everyone was interested in bang for the buck. I thought very rich people got that way because they are very frugal.

As far as I’m concerned, how people spend their money entirely up to them and no one else’s business. people are not very rich because they are frugal. Frugal people are slightly less poor than people less frugal than themselves. A dealer I use has had people coming to his shop and spend $500,000 inside an hour without questioning the price. Last time I saw him, he was selling a pair of Chronosonic XVX and it had become a weeks long negotiation between him, the customer and the distributor. The customer could easily afford the speakers without blinking, he obviously just liked negotiating and getting good price. The lower end of the hi-fi market is much more price competitive because there are so many similar products. You just have to look at whatHiFi.

 

[Geoffkait]

Geez, here I thought all poor people were poor because they’re lazy. I was way off. Thanks for straightening me out.

 

[ssfas]

Geez, here I thought all poor people were poor because they’re lazy. I was way off. Thanks for straightening me out.

Sadly, lots of people work extremely hard and barely have enough money to live, they just get paid badly and then there’s the cost of living crisis.

There used to be an expression, the idle rich. Ever heard of Bertie Wooster? I have a friend who is one of those. He’s a very nice chap. inherited a stockbroking business and lots of assets. He’s barely done a days work in his life. There was a joke, which he much appreciated, that it was far better that he didn’t go into his office because it would likely cost him money.

 

[Al M.]

Geez, here I thought all poor people were poor because they’re lazy. I was way off. Thanks for straightening me out.

Good one, thanks for putting it this way .

 

[Al M.]

Sadly, lots of people work extremely hard and barely have enough money to live, they just get paid badly and then there’s the cost of living crisis.

There used to be an expression, the idle rich. Ever heard of Bertie Wooster? I have a friend who is one of those. He’s a very nice chap. inherited a stockbroking business and lots of assets. He’s barely done a days work in his life. There was a joke, which he much appreciated, that it was far better that he didn’t go into his office because it would likely cost him money.

Yeah, there is too much lazy and arrogant misunderstanding about "merit" and money.

 

[Rexp]

I use a vector scope and look at the stereo image in a Lissajous pattern.

View attachment 129493

Cool, when you say use, how do you use it, in what scenario ?

 

[sparkie]

Cool, when you say use, how do you use it, in what scenario ?

A few places I use in in stereo aligning analog inside equipment. Back when I was exposed to the pro recording world I interned as a recording engineer and would use the scope to set up stereo recording something. Because microphone placement is that critical. Sad thing is I can't tell anyone what I recorded due to an agreement with that studio/publisher because someone else gets the credit for it since I was an intern that was learning (supposedly).

 

[Carlos269]

 

[ssfas]

Great Hifi sound doesn't have to cost a lot of money either. Even though stereo world should have abandoned RCA/unbalanced connections a long time ago which is a source of a lot of issues.

Belden Blue Jeans cables arrived . 5m pair of 10AWG 5T00UP delivered to the UK for $200. Turns out they are exactly the same cable and termination as the QSA Gamma Infinity, although I chose spades (same price). Sorry, I forgot, the other difference, $5,800, but that's the cost of superconducting fairy dust these days.

I was looking into the specifications and the key thing seems to be low inductance without high capacitance. The Belden Iconoclast have half the inductance and cost $2,000. Of course for Iconoclast you are also paying a lot for the multi-strand weaved cable geometry. These are about the same inductance as several Nordost cables, like Blue Heaven, which have very low inductance. This is a specific requirement for Quad ESL users and Quad use Nordost themselves.

Resistance is apparently not a big issue, all the cables are low resistance, and the Nordost Blue Heaven have resistance about 4 times more than the 5T00UP wire. Belden put all their cable measurements online - how about QSA putting their measurements online and we can see their superconductivity.

Initial listening - no complaints.

 

[sparkie]

Belden Blue Jeans cables arrived . 5m pair of 10AWG 5T00UP delivered to the UK for $200. Turns out they are exactly the same cable and termination as the QSA Gamma Infinity, although I chose spades (same price). Sorry, I forgot, the other difference, $5,800, but that's the cost of superconducting fairy dust these days.

I was looking into the specifications and the key thing seems to be low inductance without high capacitance. The Belden Iconoclast have half the inductance and cost $2,000. Of course for Iconoclast you are also paying a lot for the multi-strand weaved cable geometry. These are about the same inductance as several Nordost cables, like Blue Heaven, which have very low inductance. This is a specific requirement for Quad ESL users and Quad use Nordost themselves.

Resistance is apparently not a big issue, all the cables are low resistance, and the Nordost Blue Heaven have resistance about 4 times more than the 5T00UP wire. Belden put all their cable measurements online - how about QSA putting their measurements online and we can see their superconductivity.

Initial listening - no complaints.

For speaker cable most of the time it makes no difference. As most amplifier speaker outputs are balanced. But it depends on the amp. The wire run length and gauge size dictates what kind of performance. So how does that compare with a 10 gauge contractor extension cord at the same length?

 

[LammJunkie]

Many here think the hobby is purely subjective but there are some objective attributes that one can assign to a music reproduction system. For example, one system can objectively image better than another. Agree/disagree?

Sorry but NO!
You dont understand something very very problematic.
99% of “audiophiles “ doesnt have developed ears or hearing awareness like studio musicians, studio mix engineers , studio mastering engineers etc
99% of people listen music in flat manner.
They are not even aware of that. They can not be, because they are not what i mentioned.
These professionals or these hobbies develope ears different ways and people i mentioned, including myself, can hear and repeat EVERY single instrument, sound, phrase, of every instrument in a song.,from jazz trio to classical ensemble.

I am not saying this in negative manner .,I am saying this because i am jazz music bass player,, mix and mastering engineer, and architect whose side job beside architecture is crating proejcts / rooms with correct acoustics and acoustical specifications…

So. Regarding lf this stsrting question, you will have 40 different opinions, from different people and perspectives.
THE SAME you can read on this forum or any other.
Sound and acoustics are little tricky to describe because sometimes you can not understand under same words used or written definitions, you can not know are they think about the same thing.

So, this audio hobby is personal exclusively, except you are studio engineer / musician where you understand what something that is written about sound, means because these professionals developed ears and way of listening and understanding about what they are hearing in specific way…,in very natural way…

I hope my English is ok., its not my native language and i am doing my best to write best i can

Cheers

 

[twitch]

LammJunkie, interesting perspective and at the end of the day, it's still a hobby ! So, subjectively speaking if it puts a smile on one's face and the toes are tapping, all is good ...........

 

[LammJunkie]

LammJunkie, interesting perspective and at the end of the day, it's still a hobby ! So, subjectively speaking if it puts a smile on one's face and the toes are tapping, all is good ...........

Yes
I am trying to explain that being studio engineer , and that your decisions about mixing and mastering depend on awareness and understanding about what you hear. and they cost money. Mixing is not free, Mastering is not free., Client has to pay for that and he needs serious product. Really serious product. And doing that always depends on what frequencies you are hearing and listening to . We are dealing with many decisions about sound we are hearing.
Decisions about what EQ, Compressor or any other hardware to choose…etc
Being audiophile in majority of situations is just making things work for you only.
Because at the end of the day its your money. And if that sounds good for you, until you hear something other that might be better, it is still something on what you have full decision.

I am just trying to present some other way of looking at this topic that is at end of day amazing hobby.
Expensive but limitless in every combination you can imagine of.
So, i will always say, life is too short to not to be grateful for what i have.
I have amazing full Lamm Signature system that i love and admire every day…. And every system can be upgraded to limitless options and decisions and ways and it can sound always better.
But… better for me… or for you only… and thats something that is natural, because we dont have same hearing awareness and ears and psycho acoustic itself is very tricky field.

Cheers ))

 

[Gregm]

Yes
I am trying to explain that being studio engineer , and that your decisions about mixing and mastering depend on awareness and understanding about what you hear. and they cost money. Mixing is not free, Mastering is not free., Client has to pay for that and he needs serious product. Really serious product. And doing that always depends on what frequencies you are hearing and listening to . We are dealing with many decisions about sound we are hearing.
Decisions about what EQ, Compressor or any other hardware to choose…etc
Being audiophile in majority of situations is just making things work for you only.
Because at the end of the day its your money. And if that sounds good for you, until you hear something other that might be better, it is still something on what you have full decision.

Indeed! Of course we cannot influence or change the mastering. The best we can do is reproduce what is on the medium. At least, that is what I go for and, so doing, I find (to my amazement) that many files are quite listenable, especially classical recordings from the 60s & 70s.
Likewise with LPs from that era -- in fact I have heard well preserved LPs from the 60s inspire deep emotions - with the help of fluid fortifications...

In the years when vinyl was the going medium, I remember that all we aspired to was to extract as much as possible from the LP and reproduce it (phono) as closely as possible. No losses!

 

[hopkins]

Being audiophile in majority of situations is just making things work for you only.

Obviously, because we are listening, and not producing. But so what?

 

[LammJunkie]

Obviously, because we are listening, and not producing. But so what?

Its ok. Very positive .,but because you dont have responsibility towards clients ( mixing and mastering ) you just can be relaxed and make things that sounds good for you.
I mean, even than, everything is planned to sound good to audience and specific formats need…. Radio/ CD/ Tape/ Vinyl etc
Because it has to sound good at the end of the process….

But
There are physics , acoustics, mathematical rules when designing audio room is on air. You need to do things right, even more seriously, because room costs x100 then any mix or master.

But for daily audio listening, ( living rooom as example ) my personal opinion is that you dont need that level of accuracy in room acoustics… it costs … but you can make things good with less investments…

As always, its your money, you can do everything you want. Its personal taste

 

[hopkins]

Its ok. Very positive .,but because you dont have responsibility towards clients ( mixing and mastering ) you just can be relaxed and make things that sounds good for you.
I mean, even than, everything is planned to sound good to audience and specific formats need…. Radio/ CD/ Tape/ Vinyl etc
Because it has to sound good at the end of the process….

But
There are physics , acoustics, mathematical rules when designing audio room is on air. You need to do things right, even more seriously, because room costs x100 then any mix or master.

But for daily audio listening, ( living rooom as example ) my personal opinion is that you dont need that level of accuracy in room acoustics… it costs … but you can make things good with less investments…

As always, its your money, you can do everything you want. Its personal taste

Ok, I had not understood from your post that the topic was room acoustics.