Hint of new Magico products
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The big question for the Q7 customers like me is if Magico will support the fact that we have paid premium dollar for a top of the line product which now seems outdated in terms of midrange and tweeter technology only a few months after the Q7 was marketed as the best dynamic loudspeaker ever designed. That support should include the possibility to upgrade to the latest and best technology for their top product. I can't see that Magico has been all that upgrade friendly in the past but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best.
Roysen,
I would not take for granted that the units of the M project sound better than those of the Q7 or its technology can be applied to the Q7 speaker - the Q7 has a quoted sensitivity of 94 dBW and the M Project only shows 91 dBW.
Was Q7 not first launched in 2012?
However, Magaico may have been designing/testing the new drives of Project M for a couple of years.
You are most probably correct, I am not talking about a direct driver replacement. I am talking about an upgrade path for the Q7 allowing their most loyal and best customer to follow up and keep their investment up to date by allowing them to continouss upgrades as they develop new technology - like this new tweeter they have developed (which seems different from the one in the M Project too since it has a different model number if he tweeter in the M Project hasn't changed name).
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/vennetra-der-hifimerker/66482-magico-50.html#post1877198
What's the upgrade path for an owner of the Wilson XLF, or any other brand's top of the line speaker?
I thought you were dumping your Q7 after that terrible shipping/damage/service experience you had and were switching brands anyway. Why the sudden interest in whether or not the M Project is better than the Q7? The Q7 will be replaced eventually, and then there will be an upgrade for the Q7 owners.
Really?
I thought Wilson did just that: update their flagship with a new tweeter, that CAN'T be retrofitted in their previous flagship. Tough on X2.2 owners who had just purchased theirs at $160k, and their resale value dropped to 1/2 or worse, overnight.
AND, the M Project is not Magico's flagship. For that, look for the Q7. It's just a commemorative, limited edition loudspeaker. I see it kinda like when Sonus faber put ribbon tweeters on the limited editions Stradivari, for the Asian market.
alexandre
I thought Wilson did just that: update their flagship with a new tweeter, that CAN'T be retrofitted in their previous flagship. Tough on X2.2 owners who had just purchased theirs at $160k, and their resale value dropped to 1/2 or worse, overnight.
AND, the M Project is not Magico's flagship. For that, look for the Q7. It's just a commemorative, limited edition loudspeaker. I see it kinda like when Sonus faber put ribbon tweeters on the limited editions Stradivari, for the Asian market.
alexandre
The Sasha 1 can not be upgraded to the Sasha 2 as far as I know. I also did not think that the Wilson Alexandria X2.2 could be upgraded to XLF. The port plug, the tweeter, quite a few differences. Wilson does offer a factory refurbishing option for used speakers with factory warranties, but that is not an upgraded speaker. I just heard a pair of Alexandria x2.2 that the owner bought through this program from a previous owner who upgraded to the new XLF. The Alexandria x2.2 owner bought the speaker at a HUGE discount.
Even the out of production model Grand SLAMM can be upgraded to the latest version MK.5 which is a version which was never available when the Grand SLAMM was in production. The models from Wilson can certainly be upgraded. I have never mentioned upgrading to a newer model. I am talking about a new version of the model the customer already owns.
The XLF is not a new version of the Alexandria 2.2 so asking for an upgrade like that and being turned down is understandable to me.
I never claimed the M Project to be Magico's flagship model. What I am talking about is the Q7 being the flagship model and hopefully upgradeable to the latest and best technology now offered in a lower hierarchy model.
the general approach to high dollar brick and mortar brands of speakers (Wilson, Magico, JM Labs-Focal, etc.) is relatively frequent product line upgrades, large margins, which allow for favorable trade-ins. the favorable trade-in (upgrade as opposed to update) pathway (encouraging that activity) is what both manufacturer and retailer are seeking. rare is the actual 'update current product to new product' opportunity for the customer.
the brick and mortar stores rely on relatively frequent product upgrades to stimulate activity. and every speaker upgrade presents opportunities for other sales activity.
these products effectively don't ware out or get used up comparatively like a boat or car.
stepping off the trade-in path for customers and selling aged/not current high end speakers privately can be painful.....as you then face the true depreciation.
I'm not judging this strategic approach; only calling it for what it is.....the only choice for a high end brick and mortar store who wants to survive. Magico has to keep the fresh new exciting products coming to support their dealers. customers offended by the 'next new thing' need to get over it. it will never stop. it can't. the dealers are always wanting more 'new' stuff to bring in activity. these stores are committed to all their customers, but especially to the ones on the upgrade path as that is their bread and butter.
when you purchase a high dollar speaker marketed in this way it comes with it's own built in sales culture that you are then involved with.
the brick and mortar stores rely on relatively frequent product upgrades to stimulate activity. and every speaker upgrade presents opportunities for other sales activity.
these products effectively don't ware out or get used up comparatively like a boat or car.
stepping off the trade-in path for customers and selling aged/not current high end speakers privately can be painful.....as you then face the true depreciation.
I'm not judging this strategic approach; only calling it for what it is.....the only choice for a high end brick and mortar store who wants to survive. Magico has to keep the fresh new exciting products coming to support their dealers. customers offended by the 'next new thing' need to get over it. it will never stop. it can't. the dealers are always wanting more 'new' stuff to bring in activity. these stores are committed to all their customers, but especially to the ones on the upgrade path as that is their bread and butter.
when you purchase a high dollar speaker marketed in this way it comes with it's own built in sales culture that you are then involved with.
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The Sasha 2 is a new version of the model that the Sasha 1 customer already owns. Yet it can not be upgraded to the Sasha 2. Can the Duette be upgraded to the new Duette 2? Can the Maxx 2 be upgraded to the Maxx3? Could you give an example of a Wilson speaker that can be upgraded besides the Grand SLAMM?
Regarding Magico speakers, the Mini 1 was upgradeable to Mini 2 status. But I'm not aware of any other Magico speakers that have an upgraded version beyond what originally was released.
Are you asking for the Q7 to be upgraded with the M Project drivers, new crossovers and curved carbon sidewalls?
Mike, that is an interesting explanation from the point of view of the dealer. You make it almost sound like planned obsolescence. Are you saying that the frequent model improvements from the brands that use brick and mortar distribution models are to stimulate sales activity which support the retailer through constant purchases and upgrading and less because of continued research, new discoveries and advances in technology? Don't the new models almost always sound better also? In the case of Magico, the Q5 arguably sounded better than the M5, the Q1 sounded better than the Mini 2, and the S5 sounded better than the V3, all of which cost less than what they replaced. That may stimulate sales activity, but it also offers some good opportunities to get better sound for those who want the latest and also opportunities for those who want close to current performance at good prices.
By contrast, brands that use direct to consumer distribution models may not update model lines as frequently, so the speakers may be the same for years but still have price increases because of manufacturing costs going up. Those customers pay more after a few years for the same speaker that has been in production for a while.
I guess it is just a different approach.
Lloyd, are you saying that Wilson's new tweeter from their flagship XLF can be retrofitted into the rest of their line, or that over time, new models that they introduce will have the new XLF tweeter? Can Wilson speakers be sent to the factory for tweeter upgrades thus introducing the latest technology to customers' existing speakers? This seems to be what Roysen thinks Wilson does and what he wants Magico to do also.
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