Horns with SS amp instead of Tube (se)!?

[ddk]

Spectron?

Yes!
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/das_spec.htm
david

 

[morricab]

If you haven't heard the AV driven by the 1 watt MZ3 then you're only speculating. I can tell you it drove them easily and cleanly. I never tried them at 100+ db though as I don't listen at that level.

Could you could share what HOMS stands for?

Yes, I was hypothesizing

 

[Atmasphere]

So you haven't heard any commercial digital amps that sound musical and natural?
david

Dunno. I've heard a lot of class D at shows, but its really the system you're listening to.

 

[morricab]

Dont all horns suffer from HOMS , why geddes and others sacrifice some sensitivity in favor of waveguides ..

The oblate spheroid of Geddes is still a type of horn. These Iwatas (really something between Iwata and JMLC) seem to have very low HOMS. The 18 sound horns (also some special computer modeled geometry) are also very good but perhaps not as uncolored.

 

[Alrainbow]

Well, Spectrals have a "digital" sound to me. I thought maybe you meant some sorta Gryphon or something with a DAC in it.

Cant agree with that about Spectral , what Speakers ...!

 

[bonzo75]

Higher Order Modes (HOMs) are reflection and/or diffraction paths within a horn.

This is a shootout of 16 horns from ETF 2010 reflection and diffraction ranks given on last two pages.

http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=1760

 

[Duke LeJeune]

The oblate spheroid of Geddes is still a type of horn.

Agreed, a "waveguide" (in the sense that Geddes uses the term) is a type of horn, but the converse is not true - most horns are not "waveguides".

These Iwatas (really something between Iwata and JMLC) seem to have very low HOMS.

The Iwatas look very interesting, do you know the reason for the unorthodox mouth shape?

The 18 sound horns (also some special computer modeled geometry) are also very good but perhaps not as uncolored.

Some of the 18Sound waveguide-style horns I've measured have a lot of pattern narrowing in the top octave or half-octave or so, such that the off-axis response has considerably less high frequency energy than the on-axis response. On the other hand the on-axis response drooping in the top octave or half-octave is often a limiting factor with constant-directivity horns and waveguides far as system efficiency goes, so 18Sound's choices as they juggle the tradeoffs has justification.

 

[Alrainbow]

This is a shootout of 16 horns from ETF 2010 reflection and diffraction ranks given on last two pages.

http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=1760

The TAD drivers measured the best , how are they subjectively against the same ...

 

[bonzo75]

The TAD drivers measured the best , how are they subjectively against the same ...

TAD usually measure the best. And the 4003 is not part of the shootout due to rarity and price, else it measures better than the 4001 and is linear to 18khz. That ends up in making it easier to fit into a design with a simple cross over. This will reflect in sound.

Subjectively, TAD are the most detailed and nuance and most transparent to recordings (I also find that with Radian beryllium in universum). This seems to be more of a beryllium trait. There are a lot of measurements on other forums of beryllium vs non-Be diaphragms for the same JBL or Radian driver. Both TAD and Radian make the upper half of the horn sound more like an electrostat in terms of see thoroughness and soundstage feel.

Apart from that, there is always a certain tonal difference between non-metallic drivers like paper and phenolic. But which you prefer will depend on your horn design (sensitivity and impedance match with woofers and the cross over point, back loaded, front loaded or what), music taste, and what you listen for. You might like multiple, like I do. It isn't very dogmatic.

There will also be subjective differences you will hear with compression drivers and non-CD like AER or Lowther. AER bd4 and above is also extremely nuanced, and preferred more in settings you need to run close to full range. One guy who knows what he is doing preferred it to Feastrex as well, among full range drivers.

Leif and his friends listened to as well measured (and owned) different drivers in their various horns over the last decade and more. They compared various TADs, JBL, Altec, Radian, ALE 7550 DE, and 4 of them ended up with TAD 4003. I did too after hearing Leif's horn. But there are a couple of paper and phenolic I would like to own as well and rotate drivers like one rotates valves.

The above is only for midrange btw. It will change for woofers and tweeters

 

[manisandher]

This is a shootout of 16 horns from ETF 2010 reflection and diffraction ranks given on last two pages.

http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=1760

Very interesting.

The 3 best-measuring horns are all round (2 with TAD, 1 with RCA drivers).

Mani.

 

[marslo]

This is a shootout of 16 horns from ETF 2010 reflection and diffraction ranks given on last two pages.

http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=1760

Very interesting Ked, what is Avant-Garde Kugelwellen horn?
It’s one of two best in the test with TAD driver, is that DIY make?

 

[bonzo75]

Very interesting Ked, whats is Avant-Garde Kugelwellen horn?
It’s one of best in the test with TAD driver, is that DIY make?

I don’t know I think they used the AG round horn with these drivers. Kugelwellen is just a form of spherical horn.

 

[bonzo75]

Pictures of the shootout

http://www.melaudia.net/etf10galerieconcours.php

 

[ddk]

This is a shootout of 16 horns from ETF 2010 reflection and diffraction ranks given on last two pages.

http://forums.melaudia.net/attachment.php?aid=1760

Maybe a speaker designer might find something useful in this but what did you get from this? The methedology is limiting and some of the horn/speaker pairings are wrong or strange, just look at the S2 and the Stereolab horn pairing. I wouldn't call this a shootout or conclusive only a record of what he found in his limited tests.

david

 

[marslo]

I don’t know I think they used the AG round horn with these drivers. Kugelwellen is just a form of spherical horn.

It shows that AG midrange horn gives one of the less colored sound among horn family.
This is exactly what I hear comparing different constructions , sometimes much more expensive. The driver is another story. Reflections and deffractions of the horn itself are minimal.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe a speaker designer might find something useful in this but what did you get from this? The methedology is limiting and some of the horn/speaker pairings are wrong or strange, just look at the S2 and the Stereolab horn pairing. I wouldn't call this a shootout or conclusive only a record of what he found in his limited tests.

david

I didn’t, I posted to Duke's reflection diffraction comment and since he is a speaker designer, I thought he might find it useful

 

[bonzo75]

It shows that AG midrange horn gives one of the less colored sound among horn family.
This is exactly what I hear comparing different constructions , sometimes much more expensive. The driver is another story. Reflections and deffractions of the horn itself are minimal.

Many jmlc are also non colored depending on material used. There are criticisms of the AG horns for being resonant, and Jim Smith when he was distributor used to put sandbags on them and add isolation at the bottom too. But imo all materials have their own color, whether wood, fiberglass or whatever, you eventually decide by hearing certain pairings. Ideally I would have an autotech jmlc, a wooden one, a wooden multicell on hand, and rotate them with various drivers. For a lower cross over I would use tractrix of different types including Bill's wooden.

 

[marslo]

Ideally I’m young, wealthy and have hairs

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe a speaker designer might find something useful in this but what did you get from this? The methedology is limiting and some of the horn/speaker pairings are wrong or strange, just look at the S2 and the Stereolab horn pairing. I wouldn't call this a shootout or conclusive only a record of what he found in his limited tests.

david

There were subjective quotes about that shootout where they preferred JMLC

 

[bonzo75]

Ideally I’m young, wealthy and have hairs

The good thing is rotating these is a cheaper hobby than rotating carts or cables.