How do you know when you are done?

[Tangram]

There are two sides to this hobby: hardware and software. I suspect I’ll always buy and sell records (software) so I’ll never be “done” with that. Knowing when I’m done with hardware upgrades is actually quite simple. If, every time I listen to my system, the occasion feels special, like an event, I’ll know I’m done. I experience this with a car I own. I bought a used Porsche 911 in 2002 (a 1995 C2). Twenty-three years later, every time I slide behind the wheel and fire it up, it feels special. Every. Single. Time. I also owned a newer Porsche but when one had to go there was no question that it was the newer one that would be sold. Right now my system feels that same special way but I purchased new speakers at Christmas so I’m still in the honeymoon phase.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm impressed..not one "end game" so far in this thread, then I realized SW hasn't posted here yet...

end game, end game, end game.

ML didn't you put your speakers up for sale just a short time ago? That sure didn't seem like a "I'm done" move. Of course as far as I recall you went dark as to what u were looking to move to and that all seemed to just go away.

you need to pay more attention.

twice in this thread i have mentioned that i went through a period last year and the year prior where i was looking to change (when i did offer my speakers, then later my amps and preamp, for sale) for the sake of change and then changed my mind as i realized i was happy with what i had.

i had not been looking to make any change but circumstances occurred and some things were offered that had tempted me. to begin with Evolution brought out new models and my dear friend Jonathan R.I.P. had told me he would sell my speakers and i would get the new ones.....nothing i had pushed for. for a number of reasons that fell though but it did get me in speaker change mind set, so i did give a speaker change some effort. then also with Jonathan no longer involved with darTZeel i had been pondering a change, and then later dart was going through things so both things pushed me to think about change, but that was never about performance. once i realized that there was nothing i wanted that could equal the darts i pulled back.

my speakers and amp/preamp are no longer for sale. and i am where i want to be.

Maybe that was a big moment for you

it was a realization that i was done, as i had already upgraded all my sources the previous few years, and turned the page. and i retired 2 years ago which is part of the picture.

 

[Lee]

Part of the fun of the hobby is the journey. And sharing that journey with friends.

I’m skeptical that we are ever done. With major purchases? Sure. But we will try cables and other accessories until they put us in the ground.

 

[Kingsrule]

end game, end game, end game.

you need to pay more attention.

twice in this thread i have mentioned that i went through a period last year and the year prior where i was looking to change (when i did offer my speakers, then later my amps and preamp, for sale) for the sake of change and then changed my mind as i realized i was happy with what i had.

i had not been looking to make any change but circumstances occurred and some things were offered that had tempted me. to begin with Evolution brought out new models and my dear friend Jonathan R.I.P. had told me he would sell my speakers and i would get the new ones.....nothing i had pushed for. for a number of reasons that fell though but it did get me in speaker change mind set, so i did give a speaker change some effort. then also with Jonathan no longer involved with darTZeel i had been pondering a change, and then later dart was going through things so both things pushed me to think about change, but that was never about performance. once i realized that there was nothing i wanted that could equal the darts i pulled back.

my speakers and amp/preamp are no longer for sale. and i am where i want to be.

it was a realization that i was done, as i had already upgraded all my sources the previous few years, and turned the page. and i retired 2 years ago which is part of the picture.

I need to pay more attention??
An arrogant statement from the biggest opportunist here....

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I need to pay more attention??
An arrogant statement from the biggest opportunist here....

thanks.

 

[italia]

I'm a cyclical hobbiest and tend to flow in and out of hobbies on a 10-20 year basis. Audio was a big hobby in late 70's through early 90's. Collecting records big in 80's. Was a big car guy (SCCA and PCA racing) in the 80's-early 90's. Golf in the 90's. Motorcycles from 2000 until pretty much recently but the interest has faded some since I quit riding on tracks a few years ago - still have five motorcycles though. Back into cars a little since a few years ago but once you've ridden sport bikes, cars just don't thrill.

And back into audio since a few years ago as well. I never owned a CD player in my life and only listened to vinyl from 70's until I bought a streamer a few years ago. Now my turntable is under a cover and I just stream Qobuz and run a NAS-based music server. I still use my amp, speakers and subs from the early 90's.

I don't really look at any hobby being over or done, just dormant until it reverts it's lovely head again. Except golf. I don't ever want to be a golfer again

 

[Iamrael]

on the KL Audio thread i responded to Ron's points about changing gear where he he responded to a @XV-1 post "Ron, just think of the turnover of your equipment in the last 18 months.


" saying "But I'm not sure that one swap of three things and an additional third thing is a lot compared to many."


with this post........"10 years from now is when you can look back to say when stuff actually settled down and were set......for 3-4 years in a row. where changing is no longer a thought."


then @tima picked up on that and responded to my point....."It is an interesting phenomena -- how do you know when you're satisfied. How do you know when you're done? "

Ron said "I'll know it when I hear it.

i was going to respond to Tim on that thread, but thinking about it, seemed like it's an important enough subject to justify it's own thread so not to comingle it with the KL Audio thread.

how do you know when you are done? and what does done mean? done listening? done talking about changing? done changing? done major piece changing? or just dialed way back on your sense of pursuit? in my mind all those things are forms of being done.

personally i have made it known i'm sorta done and i've got life style changes going on which has changed my priorities considerably. does that mean i don't think about better sound? my answer right now March 14th, 8:28am PDT is i'm not sure exactly what it means. but for sure something has changed for me in terms of how i view my hifi/music hobby path. there are no pieces of gear on my mind to acquire. i'm not thinking about my next move. yet; listening and thinking about the hobby still burns brightly.

before i made the decision last summer to change my lifestyle i think i had already felt i was done. satisfied. investigated what i needed to. acquired the media i wanted to. flirted with some major changes, but realized i was just wanting change for change sake and pulled back from that spot and realized i had what i wanted already. i was in a place of contentment. where when i listened my heart was good. my boxes were checked.

i was hearing what i needed and wanted to hear and was/am happy. day after day after day. and being retired did not want to reinvent my hifi self to explore other approaches.

in my mind no doubt if something minor is presented to me that does move the system performance needle i'm still open to that, but nothing too big. i'm good. i'm done.

what does being done mean to others? where is that for you? what needs to happen, or not happen, for you to feel like you are done? and if so is it......."at a place of rest until the next push"....or...."done for now"......or........"done till you are not done"......or "really done forever"?

I think that your question will olikely be better answered in a medical/psychological focused context instead of audio related.
There is no cure for ocd.

 

[microstrip]

(...) First Rule of Audio: What you have sounds great- until you hear something better.

I agree with most of your post, but must disagree with this sentence. A few years ago I have listened to a particular system that was better than mine in most aspects and mine went on sounding great.

My drive for changing was seldom what I listened in other systems, but most of the time what I read and what I learned from people whose opinion I cared and respected. Listening happened after acquiring the equipment. Surely this helped living in a state with long evaluations and lots of changes.

 

[microstrip]

I think that your question will olikely be better answered in a medical/psychological focused context instead of audio related.
There is no cure for ocd.

Well, I deeply disagree. For most of us this is a great hobby, that has real and solid substance behind it. The subject, as posted by ML is challenging.

Surely from time to time we can read from obsessive audiophiles. But fortunately they seldom stay for long in is this forum!

 

[Elliot G.]

I don’t believe real lovers of anything are ever done unless they can’t afford it or are ill.
The issue with many hobbies is the difference between the lovers and the collectors. I see this in many places golf, cars, watches and audio.
The lover will always look for better but is very selective the collectors are influenced by many different things yet the love mostly escapes them.
Grinding through numerous and copious amounts of anything is not satisfying.
Those are artifacts of boredom and money.
I love both music and golf . I change when it’s necessary not because there is new shit!
I’ve said before audio always finds me I’m not looking for it. I changed my golf gear because of the changes in my body and age. When you need to change you do.
I lost interest in watches and cars my love is still there but it’s transportation not status I seek.

 

[Iamrael]

There is a fine line between hobby and obsession which is difficult even for the individual to distinguish for themself, let alone an outsider (in this case yourself) to make a determination.
Granted, it goes both ways, but certainly asking “when does it end” raises flags.
I am not being judgmental or derogatory; and this not just about the OP/Mike.
I can easily point out posts from many that, without question, indicate a problem.
How do YOU differentiate between the two, and why is it you find it fortunate that that “they” seldom stay for long, if in fact that is even true?

 

[No Regrets]

When you start constantly buying music and listening to new albums instead of searching for new equipment, that’s when you’re done. That’s my opinion.

The above statement rings true for me.

I consider myself a music lover first and foremost and an audiophile (my idea of someone who has a fascination about acquiring audio gear) secondary, although admitting they both can kind of go hand in hand to an extent.

I have always tried to build my audio system/s to be able to reproduce the sound of my recordings to the best that I could achieve within the outlay of money that I felt comfortable with at any given time.

I would do as much research that I could about any and all options that would catch my interest. Back in the day (decades ago) that meant reading all the various rags.... Absolute Sound, Stereophile, Positive Feedback, along with a handful of others. Then when the internet came along, reading the various forums, etc. When I found items of interest and after I did my research, I would plan weekend trips to the big cities and audition in the brick and mortar stores. If I liked what I heard, I would arrange in home auditions and if the piece of gear proved to be a great match and upgrade for my system, I would buy it from that dealer.

I was never on a merry-go-round. Because of the lengthy time of my research, it would take me quite some time to decide on what I wanted to purchase, but I always had the cash saved up for the next purchase so that when I felt the item was right for me, I could pull the trigger. This lengthy process has always worked out for me as I have kept my gear for decades.

So, even though I might go 10/15/20 years or more before buying any new piece of gear.... I have never once pumped the brakes on getting more vinyl or cd's. I guess that's why I say I feel I am a music lover first.

In the beginning I focused on optimizing my vinyl side of the system. Now recently I just finished optimizing the digital side of my system. Am I done? I would say that I am done with buying more gear, for at least another 10 years.( Which might be forever for me as with my current health issues I'd be lucky to live another 10 years ). But, I can honestly say that I will never be done buying music!

I love participating on the forums because I love being involved with people that have similar interests as I do. I love the social aspect of it all. It's fun living vicariously through the other forum members whose disposable income seems to be endless and can afford to purchase gear that I only can experience from attending the high end audio shows. That doesn't make me want to cash in my investments and go out and buy any of it though.

My system is very modest in the WBF regards, but I am so amazingly content with it. It makes me smile every time I listen to it and that's all I could ever ask of it.

Best wishes,
Don

 

[thedudeabides]

I'm impressed..not one "end game" so far in this thread

Fear of coming out of the closet.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for starting this thread, Mike.

Of the many possible answers to Mike's question, one answer is when you are happy enough with the system that you don't feel any driving need to spend more time or money on it.

I had the same system for 18 years -- not a single change in component for 18 years. So I definitely don't have some never-ending OCD thing going on.

I have never had the goal of spending an almost unlimited amount of money and an almost unlimited amount of time to achieve what for my ears is the state-of-the-art, and then to keep pushing that edge outward. I think this has been your path, Mike. And then you made it even harder on yourself by seeking to push each of your individual sources to the limits of the art.

I have always had in my head an unquantified notion of seeking not to spend an almost unlimited amount of money, and seeking not to devote an almost unlimited amount of time to the hobby. I may be fairly far along the cost curve as it is (although some systems are triple and quadruple what I have spent) but I have always had a notion of maximizing sound quality per cost of the system, rather than seeking to explore ever diminishing returns at ever higher cost.

I can't quantify where that point is. If I had to guess I would say subjectively something like if I get to around 75% or 80% of the best system I've ever heard, given room limitations, that sounds about right to me. When I get to a fairly arbitrary point that I am very satisfied with the sound of the system, I will slap my forehead and declare it done. I likely won't seek to go past that trying to achieve the next little bit of suspension of disbelief.

I think I'm about 75% or 80% of the way to that 75% or 80% end point. The new Aries Cerat preamp; a decision on a Jadis upgrade or something similar; if I sell the VTLs then switching to high power solid-state for the woofer ribbons; and the larger Clarisys Auditoriums and I will be done.

 

[KPC]

How do you know when you are done?​

When I’m pushing up daisies. RIP.

 

[thedudeabides]

Except golf. I don't ever want to be a golfer again

May I inquire as to why. Performance falling short of expectations?

 

[MRubey]

My wife would like a definitive answer asap.

I don’t have a clue.

 

[Audiocrack]

As mentioned earlier in this thread part of the fun of our music hobby is indeed the journey: discovering / acquiring new and better equipment and thereafter experiencing our beloved music at home more intensively and beautifully than ever before is still providing me a lot of pleasure. But at ‘a certain level’ the costs involved with updating our audio equipment are becoming staggering. Lee remarked that at a certain moment in time we might be done with major purchases but likely never with “cables and other accessories” until ‘the very end’. Well, I do not consider high quality cabling as accessories. The sonic impact of ‘state of the art’ cabling - be it pc’s, ic’s or loudspeaker cables - is (at least in my audio system) huge. The same applies to my Tripoint Audio top notch grounding units and cables: the latter’s positive effects as regards the sonic performance of my Wadax reference server, Wadax reference dac as well as regarding my Tidal Audio la Assoluta loudspeakers are absolutely profound. And the same applies to the pure, oxygen free copper slabs I am using as platforms and for mass loading my audio pieces: the sonic effects of these copper pieces are also major. But copper (in my case: slabs with a thickness of 2.5 cm) has become really expensive while the pricing of some ultra high end cabling (and of course the same applies to ultra high end equipment) is getting ‘crazy’. And ‘the madness’ of spending (very) large amounts of money must end somewhere (unless, I suppose, someone’s financial recourses are more or less unlimited).

I have - in say the last 40-45 years of my life - always tried to maximize the quality of my various audio systems and I am nearly at the end of my audio journey as regards updating: I am 62, nearing my retirement and I never thought - when I started this audio journey - it would be possible to achieve the replay quality I have currently achieved. Being happy with the sonic (end)result and after finalizing some last - but quite important and very expensive - changes and additions later this year ‘I am done’.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Great argument @Mike Lavigne!

The driver of this hobby is Curiosity IMO.

Curiosity for music, new albums, artists, genres.

Curiosity for different areas of musical reproduction: gear, set up, tweaks, room, network, grid.

There are so many areas to consider that you’re probably never done. Major changes in speakers or components can be “done”, but some new gremlins in your head suggest more attention to noise or EMI/RFI. A new cartridge, footer. The temptation to move the speakers further apart, toe them in a few millimeters.

In conclusion I think that if the curiosity is “on” we are “in the hobby”. When/if the curiosity will be vanished, hope never occurs so, I’ll probably know that is really finished.

 

[DasguteOhr]

When you start enjoying the music and stop tinkering with the system and tweaking it.
the next task is building a vintage system. Sansui AU111, Scott FM330 c tuner, Tandberg TD 20A R2R machine, Sony CDP R1a, Micro Seiki BL 91, Altec 9862 speaker, or Leedh Elfe. You have to keep busy, or you'll start to rust.