How do you know when you are done?

[tima]

i was going to respond to Tim on that thread, but thinking about it, seemed like it's an important enough subject to justify it's own thread so not to comingle it with the KL Audio thread.

Yes, the topic deserves its own thread, and thanks, here we have it.

Here is the context on my comment on the KLAudio thread:

---

I find this question equally interesting:
How confident are we with our confidence that "I am done."

It's a bit of a slippery slope. One might find oneself saying: "I was very confident the last time I thought I was done, after I spent the big bucks on that preamp I'd lusted after for years." And then in another year you find yourself lusting after something else. "I thought I was done then, but ... just one more hit and I'll be done." Right. I get out and it drags me back in.

A few comments ...

If you are a gear head, like many on this forum, you may never be done. I guess that's OK. Your satisfaction comes from trying different gears.

As others have noted: you might be done when you pay less attention to your system and more attention to listening to or acquiring music.

You are probably done when you feel you've truly met your goal. How many of us have a goal that we can articulate? (There's another thread if someone wants to start it: what is your goal in audio?)

Is your goal expressed in terms of your system or is it expressed in terms of the music you enjoy? If it is in terms of your system, you may not be done for a while -- there are always new toys to try. If your goal is expressed in terms of music -- how you think the music you like should sound -- then you, imo, truly have a goal, a target that you should be able to tell when you've reached it.

 

[Chop]

I think about gear in two camps, 1. the boxes I use, and 2. the stuff that it sits on, or joins it together, or sits in the room to affect the acoustics.
So far as the boxes go I think i sit in the Nearly Done camp. After spending 40 years improving boxes the "next level" stuff I aspire to is so insanely expensive that I can neither afford nor justify it. The idea in this hobby of Cost Effectiveness is ancient history.
What would I change? I have heard and would love the Robert Koda pre amp but that isn't ever going to happen. I have had my speakers, turntable and power amp for over 20 years and they are going no where.

Ah, #2 the other stuff. I am constantly surprised how much difference improvement accurate speaker placement, stuff in the room and support materials make to the sound of the equipment I already have. Some recent changes have been like a huge pre amp upgrade.
I suspect investigating #2 will remain a passion until the day I die.

 

[ChasFreeland]

At 77 years old, I suppose I am "done" in more ways than one. Yet, my health is good, my hearing is good, and I still enjoy the music. Not time for the last tango yet! Curiosity, as one responder noted, is the driver for this hobby. I would also say that desire is the driver, and desire is endless. Get one thing and it's always something else: it's "not this,' 'not yet that' , 'one more try'. After 60 years of this, I now wonder what to do with the moraine of electronics I've acquired over the years. But has this chastened me? Oh. no. This year alone, I've acquired two new CD/SACD players, two amplifiers, a new pre amp, new speakers, new turntable, and enough wires, cables and IC to hog-tie the devil. What to do with all this when the curtain finally falls? Am I done?

 

[exupgh12]

Defining “Done”

Done with buying equipment? Done optimizing the system? Done collecting music? Done listening to music? Done with the hobby?

There are many ways to be “done.” Like most things in life, it depends on personality, financial situation, time, interests, priorities, and more.
My journey with audio started in childhood and has continued, with varying intensity, ever since. Looking back at the past six years, I can hardly believe where I started and where I am now. I don’t fool myself into thinking I’m done upgrading, but if I do, it will have to be something significant—otherwise, it’s just not worth it to me.

As for my love of music, that will never change. It’s a part of who I am. My need to listen to music will never fade. The tools I use for that, however, depend on other factors—priorities, finances, and more.

 

[Paul1960]

I am pretty confident that I am going to run out of budget before I run out of ways I could improve my system. To some extent, the idea of being done will involve the acceptance that while I might not have achieved the best system possible, I will have come close to achieving the best system I can afford. When that time comes I hope I will accept it gracefully and be grateful for how great the system sounds, rather than bitter over how much better it might have been if I was richer.

 

[TonyW]

Part of my introspection is this: I love movies. I’m sure I spend more time watching movies than I spend listening to music. And yet I have invested a fraction into my Home Theater System compared to my audio system. I’ve seen the high end HTS systems with giant screens and big sound at B&M stores. Video machines that can store and stream movies in high quality. Interesting but does not pique my interest. I divested my Home Theater and Audio systems in the early 1990’s.

I’m thrilled with my 65” OLED TV. My HTS has benefited from trickle down over the years from my Audio system. For example, my previous Power Conditioner did wonders for the picture and color on my TV. And my LHY and EE8 Ethernet Switches improved the quality of streaming movies significantly. These were things that I hadn’t or wouldn’t have tried on my HTS otherwise. Even my big subwoofers used with my previous speakers trickled down to the HTS- another great upgrade. And I did reluctantly replace my 8 year old Marantz HTS Receiver this past January with a new Sony Receiver. I was surprised by the step up in sound. I did it mainly to update the video tech to match my TV capabilities.

So I ask myself why the disparity? Why is all of my passion focused on music? If I like the theater experience so much then why have I settled for mid-fi? I guess it goes back to my college days where my passion for music grew into something separate and more intense than watching a movie. One thing for sure- I can watch a great movie maybe once every few years but I can listen to a great song over and over…

PS. One exception: I saw Star Wars the weekend it was released in May, 1977. I watched it two more times that summer. Never been anything like it since.

 

[A-Line]

The moment when I cue a record or play a CD and get consumed with the music and no longer think about the equipment used for playback.
Buying more records & CD's will never end, at least for me.

Just my experience

 

[Audiocrack]

Defining “Done”

Done with buying equipment? Done optimizing the system? Done collecting music? Done listening to music? Done with the hobby?

There are many ways to be “done.” Like most things in life, it depends on personality, financial situation, time, interests, priorities, and more.
My journey with audio started in childhood and has continued, with varying intensity, ever since. Looking back at the past six years, I can hardly believe where I started and where I am now. I don’t fool myself into thinking I’m done upgrading, but if I do, it will have to be something significant—otherwise, it’s just not worth it to me.

As for my love of music, that will never change. It’s a part of who I am. My need to listen to music will never fade. The tools I use for that, however, depend on other factors—priorities, finances, and more.

For me ‘being done’ only means stopping to invest large amounts of money. There comes a time when one concludes: yes, an audio set up can always be bettered but the system now sounds so involving and good that I am very happy with the sonic results (while the rrp’s of new (ultra) high end gear is really getting ‘out of hand’ for all those who are not multi millionaires). And I will keep on enjoying the audio system I have painstakingly - financially speaking and man oh man, I am feeling my ‘old body’ after removing, cleaning, polishing and inserting these heavy copper slabs again - assembled as long as I can.

 

[italia]

May I inquire as to why. Performance falling short of expectations?

No, I maintained an 11 handicap for several years which enabled me to play with a wide range of players without embarrassment. I think the final straw was walking into the mens' grill room in my old-school Southern country club after a round, seeing the same 70+yo men playing gin rummy and having cocktails every afternoon after a day's round - doing this same thing for decades. I decided then I didn't want to spend the rest of my life just playing golf as my primary past time.
So after some reflection, I went back to motorcycling. After 25 years now, and 8-10 mostly Italian sport bikes, I've met an amazing and diverse group of mostly younger lifelong friends, had some great experiences, and satisfied myself that I didn't waste away my years on a golf course (not that there's anything wrong with that if it's your passion).
I've ridden dirt bikes in the Baja Mexico desert for days, made trips across many States, and spent more than 15 years on a Ducati track bike riding some great road courses. When you're flat out at 155+mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta and 5-bikes wide going into turn 10A, you wait to the last possible moment to pull the front brake lever, feel the rear tire hop off the ground, front forks compressing, and drop your left knee into the turn, just out-braking 3 of the 4 bikes that were beside you. That 4th bike gives you incentive for the remaining laps. It may not be the experience everyone wants, but it made me feel alive.
My track riding days ended a few years ago, around age 60, so now it's just hitting the twisties in the country side occasionally. And spending a bit more time back in the audio world.

 

[PeterA]

I'm impressed..not one "end game" so far in this thread, then I realized SW hasn't posted here yet...

ML didn't you put your speakers up for sale just a short time ago? That sure didn't seem like a "I'm done" move. Of course as far as I recall you went dark as to what u were looking to move to and that all seemed to just go away. Maybe that was a big moment for you

I think Mike listed his amps too. Don't know what ever happened to that. I guess they did not sell, or he changed his mind and is happy. All good as some say. Since Mike started the thread, it might be interesting to read about this very aspect of his trip and how it affected his ideas about being done.

 

[Elliot G.]

No, I maintained an 11 handicap for several years which enabled me to play with a wide range of players without embarrassment. I think the final straw was walking into the mens' grill room in my old-school Southern country club after a round, seeing the same 70+yo men playing gin rummy and having cocktails every afternoon after a day's round - doing this same thing for decades. I decided then I didn't want to spend the rest of my life just playing golf as my primary past time.
So after some reflection, I went back to motorcycling. After 25 years now, and 8-10 mostly Italian sport bikes, I've met an amazing and diverse group of mostly younger lifelong friends, had some great experiences, and satisfied myself that I didn't waste away my years on a golf course (not that there's anything wrong with that if it's your passion).
I've ridden dirt bikes in the Baja Mexico desert for days, made trips across many States, and spent more than 15 years on a Ducati track bike riding some great road courses. When you're flat out at 155+mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta and 5-bikes wide going into turn 10A, you wait to the last possible moment to pull the front brake lever, feel the rear tire hop off the ground, front forks compressing, and drop your left knee into the turn, just out-braking 3 of the 4 bikes that were beside you. That 4th bike gives you incentive for the remaining laps. It may not be the experience everyone wants, but it made me feel alive.
My track riding days ended a few years ago, around age 60, so now it's just hitting the twisties in the country side occasionally. And spending a bit more time back in the audio world.

what you are describing about golf is about the country club life rather than the sport IMO. I was a club member and gave it up. I want to play the same course every time about as much as listening to the same 12 audiophile recordings. I refuse to play them at shows since it is not what life is about for me. in music and in golf diversity is a great thing. It is why I love streaming you get to listen to so many things you were not aware of or just plain forgot. I play around 50 - 70 rounds a year, I live in Florida so I can and try to play as many different courses as I can when I have the time. Yes I have one or two locally that I certainly play more often but you will NEVER find me in a clubhouse to me that is a life not worth living . Golf is a great game the politics of golf or audio are IMO not a lot of fun. As I have gotten older I have found I need less and less people and perhaps that is my secret to enjoyment

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think Mike listed his amps too. Don't know what ever happened to that. I guess they did not sell, or he changed his mind and is happy. All good as some say. Since Mike started the thread, it might be interesting to read about this very aspect of his trip and how it affected his ideas about being done.

read my posts in this thread, most of the relative info is there.

 

[Sunny]

on the KL Audio thread i responded to Ron's points about changing gear where he he responded to a @XV-1 post "Ron, just think of the turnover of your equipment in the last 18 months.


" saying "But I'm not sure that one swap of three things and an additional third thing is a lot compared to many."


with this post........"10 years from now is when you can look back to say when stuff actually settled down and were set......for 3-4 years in a row. where changing is no longer a thought."


then @tima picked up on that and responded to my point....."It is an interesting phenomena -- how do you know when you're satisfied. How do you know when you're done? "

Ron said "I'll know it when I hear it.

i was going to respond to Tim on that thread, but thinking about it, seemed like it's an important enough subject to justify it's own thread so not to comingle it with the KL Audio thread.

how do you know when you are done? and what does done mean? done listening? done talking about changing? done changing? done major piece changing? or just dialed way back on your sense of pursuit? in my mind all those things are forms of being done.

personally i have made it known i'm sorta done and i've got life style changes going on which has changed my priorities considerably. does that mean i don't think about better sound? my answer right now March 14th, 8:28am PDT is i'm not sure exactly what it means. but for sure something has changed for me in terms of how i view my hifi/music hobby path. there are no pieces of gear on my mind to acquire. i'm not thinking about my next move. yet; listening and thinking about the hobby still burns brightly.

before i made the decision last summer to change my lifestyle i think i had already felt i was done. satisfied. investigated what i needed to. acquired the media i wanted to. flirted with some major changes, but realized i was just wanting change for change sake and pulled back from that spot and realized i had what i wanted already. i was in a place of contentment. where when i listened my heart was good. my boxes were checked.

i was hearing what i needed and wanted to hear and was/am happy. day after day after day. and being retired did not want to reinvent my hifi self to explore other approaches.

in my mind no doubt if something minor is presented to me that does move the system performance needle i'm still open to that, but nothing too big. i'm good. i'm done.

what does being done mean to others? where is that for you? what needs to happen, or not happen, for you to feel like you are done? and if so is it......."at a place of rest until the next push"....or...."done for now"......or........"done till you are not done"......or "really done forever"?

This is a great place to be. On top of the mountain. Achieving the elexir. Satisfaction is a virtue. Sometimes people tend to make sideways moves. Enjoy your system.

 

[italia]

what you are describing about golf is about the country club life rather than the sport IMO.

Yes and no. There's certainly some enjoyment from being in a club - familiar faces, familiar surroundings. I met a lot of great people and we took golf trips, played courses around the country, and enjoyed both the social and golf activities at the club. But I had a feeling that I'd look back at my life in 30-40 years and have regrets if golf itself had been my only or primary hobby.

Like I said in my initial post, I'm a cyclical hobbiest. I enjoy finding new things to interest me, and often circle back to hobbies from the past. I used to go to a lot of rock concerts when I was younger, and then kind of stopped when raising a family. From the 70's through about 2000 I listened to the same 'classic rock', buying into the mantra of the baby boomer generation that it was the best rock ever.

Then in 2002, I heard a Godsmack song in the movie 'The Scorpion King' which inspired me to investigate newer rock and metal music. Fast forward a couple of decades and I now hold the unpopular opinion that the best rock and metal of my lifetime is from 1999-Present. I've been to numerous 4-day rock and metal festivals in the last several years featuring newer music, met some great young people (30-35yo) that I travel with for the festivals, and experienced the collective love of the various sub-genre of recent rock and metal.

Again, I know it's not everyone's thing, but motorcycles and new metal have kept me young

 

[Elliot G.]

Yes and no. There's certainly some enjoyment from being in a club - familiar faces, familiar surroundings. I met a lot of great people and we took golf trips, played courses around the country, and enjoyed both the social and golf activities at the club. But I had a feeling that I'd look back at my life in 30-40 years and have regrets if golf itself had been my only or primary hobby.

Like I said in my initial post, I'm a cyclical hobbiest. I enjoy finding new things to interest me, and often circle back to hobbies from the past. I used to go to a lot of rock concerts when I was younger, and then kind of stopped when raising a family. From the 70's through about 2000 I listened to the same 'classic rock', buying into the mantra of the baby boomer generation that it was the best rock ever.

Then in 2002, I heard a Godsmack song in the movie 'The Scorpion King' which inspired me to investigate newer rock and metal music. Fast forward a couple of decades and I now hold the unpopular opinion that the best rock and metal of my lifetime is from 1999-Present. I've been to numerous 4-day rock and metal festivals in the last several years featuring newer music, met some great young people (30-35yo) that I travel with for the festivals, and experienced the collective love of the various sub-genre of recent rock and metal.

Again, I know it's not everyone's thing, but motorcycles and new metal have kept me young

to each his own and in your case and hobbies we couldn't be further apart but that is what makes life interesting.
I am not young and can't even pretend to be any more and I m good with it, other than I like younger women

 

[exupgh12]

For me ‘being done’ only means stopping to invest large amounts of money. There comes a time when one concludes: yes, an audio set up can always be bettered but the system now sounds so involving and good that I am very happy with the sonic results (while the rrp’s of new (ultra) high end gear is really getting ‘out of hand’ for all those who are not multi millionaires). And I will keep on enjoying the audio system I have painstakingly - financially speaking and man oh man, I am feeling my ‘old body’ after removing, cleaning, polishing and inserting these heavy copper slabs again - assembled as long as I can..

I completely understand your perspective. There’s a certain relief in reaching a point where you’re no longer constantly thinking about the next “great” upgrade. The process of considering every possible improvement can be quite exhausting.

As for the weight of the equipment, I can relate—I’ve been fortunate to stay in good shape thanks to hobbies I’ve maintained since my teenage years. But with 55 approaching quickly, I can’t help but wonder how much longer I’ll appreciate moving heavy gear around!

 

[italia]

to each his own and in your case and hobbies we couldn't be further apart but that is what makes life interesting.
I am not young and can't even pretend to be any more and I m good with it, other than I like younger women

People and their varied interests are a wonder, and something I also appreciate! I'm in my mid-60's so not sure if that's young or not, but doing things that mostly people 30+ years younger than me do seems to have kept me from feeling old today. Hoping the feeling and the interest in these activities will last a bit longer but I'm confident I'll go out with no regrets nonetheless

 

[PeterA]

read my posts in this thread, most of the relative info is there.

Will do Mike. I just found the thread and quoted an interesting post as I came upon it and then responded without first reading the entire thread and going back.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Will do Mike. I just found the thread and quoted an interesting post as I came upon it and then responded without first reading the entire thread and going back.

I was a little curt with my response to you, sorry. Kingsrule took a shot at me and I was not in a good mood.

 

[PeterA]

How do I know that I am done? It is an interesting question, and I think it may vary for each of us. I suppose one could say, "I know it when I know it." I knew it when I met my wife and asked her to marry me. I now know that I have the right sailboat because it meets all of my needs for sailing.

With this audio hobby, I guess it depends on why one in interested in the hobby in the first place. For me, it was first about learning how to select and set up a system that allows me to fully and completely enjoy my music collection and one that encourages me to explore new recordings. I have reached the point where the system is now the right tool. Having fun listening to the music is my goal. I now realize I have the right tool for that job. My system is suited for its purpose.

There are many factors involved in knowing when one is done. For me, it was not as simple as "knowing when I hear it." Priorities, opportunities, levels of satisfaction, they all coalesced until I reached the point of knowing that I am done.

Last night I went on a date with my wife: dinner and a chamber performance of Beethoven's String Trios in a beautiful space. It was a lovely evening. Now I am inspired to listen to my recordings of some of those String Trios on my system. There is no thought of changes or tweaks to improve the system. I want to simply enjoy listening to that music now in my home. That is how I know.