How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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Get your Studer A810, play a recording at 19cm/s and try to get a CD with the same recording. then play with the 727 cd with analog output xlr without dac. then you hear how good this thing is. I spare myself flowery sound descriptions. It is important that the cd player is revised, it is 30 years old and needs care in order to deliver top performance.
 
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musicfirst1

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i don't have a dog in this fight. It just seems to me you guys are ignoring the 800 lb. elephant in the room. Software. I can't believe I am saying this-"Bits is Bits."
What you are saying is"-
1. The quality of the bits on a CD is superior t to those that come from a streamer service.
2. The recording on a CD is superior to those coming from a streamer.
3. Reading the data from the CD is superior to receiving it from a streamer.
Prove it.
Well, I take issue with your bits is bits theory. My ears say otherwise..

If proving it would mean a blind controlled listening test with identical mastering. I'm in! It would be a blast, and I'm sure we would all learn something.

I would bet my children (heck you can have 'em both!) that I would rock that test! ;)
 
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musicfirst1

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We ll I have both a good digital stack, and the tl0. Haven't optimised the tl0 as yet but once I do will weigh in:)
:eek: NOW we're talkin! o_O:p:cool:
 

jespera

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better? best? better than what exactly? i think we need specifics. general cases are just rhetoric. and Ron is talking about modest priced choices. but posters are speaking absolutes without qualification.

Wadax makes a very good CD/SACD transport, maybe the best one. but so far i hear tell they can't get one to equal or better their top server. and now, that server has a new power supply. and.....that's with streaming or files. so we don't see a new Wadax Ref transport yet. and that is just streaming and files for redbook and 1xdsd. not even high rez above that.

probably my 'favorite' digital is a streaming Quboz native 16/44 file. combination of great performance, and great native live recording not mucked with. go figure.

i'll choose native files or native streaming files from the Wadax Ref dac and server as the highest performance digital out there (highest levels of suspension of disbelief). this is over many samples, there are always going to be exceptions. and for sure, non native digital gives an unpredictable result. and certainly some love the character of their gear. objectivity is really not possible. Wadax is optimized for Roon, Quboz and Tidal. but most servers are not optimized in the same way. so results are going to vary.

maybe Wadax will get a transport to be better. but maybe just different or similar. at some point. but maybe never. i know they are trying. maybe in a year or two we might get a result. could be their current transport is as good as transports get.

I bet this would give your wadax server a run for all its money:


Even better with a valve clock.

I hear this is good too:


Can also be clocked.
 

Verdier

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Oct 7, 2018
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Cascading D2D devices like the MUTEC MC3+USBs is not an unusual, a fairly common practice easily audible in a commensurate system (at least adding the first two or three units).
I find two to be just right for most systems, but we do have clients with three or more.
O.K. thanks.

And which DAC does this customer use that you mentioned above?
 

charles1dad

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I see no benefit in yet another CD spinning versus streaming debate.There are multitudes of them with the same lines drawn in the sand. In the end, people simply like what they like and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Ron is interested in CD transports and people are kindly providing opinions and suggestions based upon their listening experiences. The two formats aren’t mutually exclusive, one can easily enjoy both side by side within their audio systems.
Charles
 

facten

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Do you have an opinion on the sound of those transports versus a Cambridge Audio CXC V2?

Ron, I don't have either the Project or the Jay's but as Charles has stated I haven't read any user comments or reviews that don't reflect highly on the SQ of these units. As I stated earlier I replaced the Cambridge with a Simaudio 260DT and the music comes across with better tone, body, texture to my ears. I don't know 1st hand how the Projec tor Jay's measures up to the Sim but I expect at the very least equal in performance, possibly better given the transport mechanism they use. Also, when I purchased a Mojo Audio DAC Ben of Mojo asked me what transport I was using and I told him the Cambridge. He responded if you want to hear what this DAc can really sound like invest in a better transport. I took his advice and he was spot on. Lastly, if you decide to purchase a transport beyond the Cambridge I'd suggest looking into which output of the transport is maximized. I initially used the SPDIF output of the Sim and it clearly bettered the Cambridge, but I was subsequently curious if the AES/EBU might be better and contacted Sim to inquire about that. The response was yes, and again spot on advice.
 
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facten

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To be clear, the MUTEC 'Stack' is upstream of all digital sources. Therefore relative comparisons of digital sources; whether its the Cambridge, the LT 64 core Memory Player or the various streaming components auditioned are valid

Thanks for clarifying for me
 

charles1dad

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@facten
Benjamin of Mojo Audio gave you good advice and I am glad you paid attention. With respect to Ron, he has a very good DAC that’ can be exploited with a very good transport. I’d not cut corners with CD playback.
Charles
 
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wil

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Ron, Considering your strong predilection for and love of Vinyl, and more recently R2R ,I would recommend that you take a look at two recent models of belt drive CD transport‘s from CEC , the revised dual beltTL2N or latest single belt drive TL5 .

.
Roy G’s article is 3 years old. The landscape is changing.
 

Lee

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Thank you for reporting this, Lee. But that just begs the question raised above — how would you evaluate the sound quality between the streaming you have now and the sound resulting from plugging a respected CD transport playing RBCD into your DAC for a direct comparison?

That is the interesting question about which I would love to learn your answer.
Ron,

I am finishing up my Rossini review. The transport may still be breaking in but this week I will do some transport versus streaming shootouts and and share my findings.
 
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Lee

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better? best? better than what exactly? i think we need specifics. general cases are just rhetoric. and Ron is talking about modest priced choices. but posters are speaking absolutes without qualification.

Wadax makes a very good CD/SACD transport, maybe the best one. but so far i hear tell they can't get one to equal or better their top server. and now, that server has a new power supply. and.....that's with streaming or files. so we don't see a new Wadax Ref transport yet. and that is just streaming and files for redbook and 1xdsd. not even high rez above that.

probably my 'favorite' digital is a streaming Quboz native 16/44 file. combination of great performance, and great native live recording not mucked with. go figure.

i'll choose native files or native streaming files from the Wadax Ref dac and server as the highest performance digital out there (highest levels of suspension of disbelief). this is over many samples, there are always going to be exceptions. and for sure, non native digital gives an unpredictable result. and certainly some love the character of their gear. objectivity is really not possible. Wadax is optimized for Roon, Quboz and Tidal. but most servers are not optimized in the same way. so results are going to vary.

maybe Wadax will get a transport to be better. but maybe just different or similar. at some point. but maybe never. i know they are trying. maybe in a year or two we might get a result. could be their current transport is as good as transports get.
I have not heard the Wadax transport but I am sure it is good. Another top transport is the new CH Precision.
 

Walter66

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Aug 22, 2022
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In germoney, some specialists prefer an old Sony Play Station, version one, for playing records. They say, it sounds excellent, much better than the successors of that model.
When I was a youngster, CD-R came on the stage, a big innovation. Recording some CD's, it was audible, the CD-R sounded different.
At that moment, I was out of the game. How can a digital copy sound different to it's original brother? They told us for years, do digital copies to safe your data and there is no loss in the data.
Even digital cables do sound different. The whole sound thing is a mysterious and technical complex question.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I bet this would give your wadax server a run for all its money:

it's all about references. my perspective is based on hours of compares in my own system references every day.
performance can be very fine and still not make the grade when directly compared. so i'm not inferring that there are not excellent sounding disc players out there. is that Marantz better than the Wadax transport? not likely very close. which for Wadax is not as good as their server. yet.

forgetting Ron's budget perspective, and his limited music needs, when we talk whether files and streaming can be equal or better than the best disc playing, it's people making system building decisions on where they are headed for the best performance. and whether they want to be limited to discs or open to files and streaming.

some will say "there is just something about discs that is better". we are all entitled to our own opinions. but it's just rhetoric.....until.....they tell me about a specific compare. then we know about that case.

certainly price points do enter into it. and i'd completely agree that it takes a pretty good server/dac doing files and streaming to surpass a good disc player. where is that break point? that's a good discussion. i'm deferring to Wadax for my case. since my dac/server is their target. they will answer that question.

the answer to Ron's question is "it depends".
 
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Walter66

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Aug 22, 2022
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Wondering what data rate for streaming you mentioned when stating that a good CD is still better listening quality.
Isn't it high definition data today, means 20 bits or so when it comes to streaming music?
We don't have to talk about youtube MP-3 quality, but there should be better streaming than the old 16 bit CD, or am I wrong?

We're talking about an old Standard Philips invented in the late 1970's for digital music reproduction, theoretical good for 20 Khz and much better noise and dynamics as any analog record. That should be surpassed 40 years later easily.
 

PeterA

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Ron, back in October you wrote this on your room/system thread:

"In the cold, sober light of morning I have decided that I am not going to get a CD transport; I am not going to get a CD player; and available funds have to be focused on buying now only what I really need to get the stereo playing music from vinyl and tape. I don’t want to make the system even more complicated from its “Big Bang.”"

I had been under the impression that you were simply getting digital, likely streaming, so that your friends and visitors could click unlimited selections of their favorite music by tapping glass on a laptop or pad to hear music through your new system. You bought a Lampizator DAC for this purpose and now need a digital source of some kind. I had also thought that when alone you were only planning to listen to music on your vinyl because that is what you prefer: vinyl for you, digital for friends and visitors.

Have you decided that you will now offer both a CD option as well as streaming to your visitors?
 
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charles1dad

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“We're talking about an old Standard Philips invented in the late 1970's for digital music reproduction, theoretical good for 20 Khz and much better noise and dynamics as any analog record. That should be surpassed 40 years later easily.”

In theory sure. If actually listening is involved then it isn’t clear cut at all.
Using that criteria, analog tape and records should be completely obsolete and not even worthy of discussion. This is hardly the case.

Listening is superior to theory, test measured performance and what it’s supposed to be.
Charles
 

rando

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Have you decided that you will now offer both a CD option as well as streaming to your visitors?

Peter, have you considered that short term installation requirements might be driving this?

In which I'd also include advancing break in period through means that allow safely walking away.

Nobody here wants to pour bad sound out of their speakers. Equilibrium appears to be the order of the day.
 
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