How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Ron Resnick

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There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 

the sound of Tao

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I’m not really sure how solid that consensus is?

That said I don’t know how good an Aqua La Diva is against other cd transports but for me it was better than my previous Meridian but after having a La Diva at home for a few months I found my server still outstripped it overall and especially in terms of having the best experience of music… but the question I was left asking myself was why bother… if you're after ultimate sound quality analogue is the only way to go… if you’re after limitless access and a complete musical freedom and full, deep, rich experience of discovering music you go for a top end streamer, and then having both analogue and streaming would simply be the best of both worlds. But for me having CD is perhaps more like getting stuck in a second best outcome in any criteria without the true advantages of either analogue or of streaming. I suppose it just comes down to where your focus and where your comfort zone is.
 
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jespera

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With digital playback the rule is: the less cpu activity, the less noise, the better sound.

If your streaming program requires more cpu activity than file playback, then the file playback will sound better. Otherwise not.

An old skool cd player has literally no cpu and therefore less noise and better sound than pretty much any computer source. A cd rom or dvd based player has more digital logic and therefore more noise and poorer sound.

With something like an old philips based player, im not sure the lines will ever cross. Try it!
 

Marcus

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An old skool cd player has literally no cpu and therefore less noise and better sound than pretty much any computer source.
I have exactly the same experience.
 

rando

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So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?

Inconstancy of interest on your part along with relatively hard to size up performance levels during active ongoing system developments make this a red herring in my view. Rollicking fun was had portending a $50 Amazon TT and $10 Goodwill sourced BDP would be inserted into your system!

Which should be taken to mean we have nothing upon which to base what your Pendragon will work best with. Price and quality are no guarantor of success.

Just for laughs, a One Meeeeelllion Dollars Wadax Reference Transport.
 

Ron Resnick

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I was thinking more in the US$1,000 range.
 

Gregadd

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CD overall is vastly inferior to streaming.
Which is not to say I do not like CD.
The question is what are we discussing? The CD transport as a unit DAC included? Or merely the optical reader?
The problem iis you are stuck with whatever is on the CD. Streaming has far more options.
 

Ron Resnick

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CD overall is vastly inferior to streaming.

This is very controversial. I, personally, found Lucasz’s view to be highly authoritative and fully dispositive.
 

Gregadd

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This is very controversial. I, personally, found Lucasz’s view to be highly authoritative and fully dispositive.
Yeah he expressed his opinion to me also. which of course begged the question...
 
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Lee

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I am undecided but I do have one relevant observation. I was skeptical about streaming sound quality until a few things happened:

1. I bought a better DAC.
2. I added a better run of ethernet cable.
3. I added an ethernet switch.
4. I added an audiophile power supply to my internet gateway.

Streaming sound quality now is simply spectacular.
 

Ron Resnick

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I am undecided but I do have one relevant observation. I was skeptical about streaming sound quality until a few things happened:

1. I bought a better DAC.
2. I added a better run of ethernet cable.
3. I added an ethernet switch.
4. I added an audiophile power supply to my internet gateway.

Streaming sound quality now is simply spectacular.

Thank you for reporting this, Lee. But that just begs the question raised above — how would you evaluate the sound quality between the streaming you have now and the sound resulting from plugging a respected CD transport playing RBCD into your DAC for a direct comparison?

That is the interesting question about which I would love to learn your answer.
 
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rando

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There was fairly good reason to suspect what part of the market you are shopping for digital in, Ron.

The problem with vintage transports is DAC designs they were provided with as a blueprint during voicing etc. That and wide range of reconditioning needs spelling EOL.


I would put stated amount money on anything Edison (Ediscreation) assembled - he doesn't sell a transport - even if meant expanding your target by a few fold. That is my serious answer to the unknown to me behaviors of your Lampi DAC/tubes in the still being assembled system.
 

wil

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This is very controversial. I, personally, found Lucasz’s view to be highly authoritative and fully dispositive.
It might depend on how committed you are for optimizing your system for streaming. There are more factors involved than simply setting up the CD player with your dac. If done with care I I think streaming and file based playback can equal or surpass CD.

Then, the big plus for streaming would be,if you’re a voracious music lover, having a whole world of music opened up to you.
 
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Gregadd

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IIRC Lokas was talking about Redbook.
 
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facten

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So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming?
Ron, I don't know that there is a definitive answer to your question. An obvious statement on my part, streamers all have different levels of SQ, as do CD transports, CD players and DACs. You might get more specific responses if you provide folks with what streamer brand/model you have in mind , and the resulting SQ realized I assume in conjunction with the Lampi Baltic 3. Then maybe someone has a relevant hands on comparison with a particular CD transport. One important thing to note would be was the optimum output used on the transport and the streamer. (Have a Simaudio 260DT CD transport now in my 2nd system , initially used the SPDIF outpout and decided one day to try the AES/EBU , the latter took the SQ to a different level ). Nothing is black and white about this as far as one being inferior to or better than the other.
 
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musicfirst1

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Ron, I don't know that there is a definitive answer to your question. An obvious statement on my part, streamers all have different levels of SQ, as do CD transports, CD players and DACs. You might get more specific responses if you provide folks with what streamer brand/model you have in mind , and the resulting SQ realized I assume in conjunction with the Lampi Baltic 3. Then maybe someone has a relevant hands on comparison with a particular CD transport. One important thing to note would be was the optimum output used on the transport and the streamer. (Have a Simaudio 260DT CD transport now in my 2nd system , initially used the SPDIF outpout and decided one day to try the AES/EBU , the latter took the SQ to a different level ). Nothing is black and white about this as far as one being inferior to or better than the other.
Ron,

FWIW, I Have a well healed, very discerning Japanese client with an amazing six figure digital system I helped him build, yet it's still fronted by a Cambridge transport he loves (begrudgingly, I have to admit, it is an outstanding price performance piece..
It consistently outperforms streaming devices, whether I provide them or from others.

For Reference all the digital sources in his system coming off the Cambridge are handled by a Black Cat SPDIF cable into a cascading pair of MUTEC MC3+s each by a MUTEC RE10 120SEMaster Clock.

The rest of his system includes the Aries Cerat IMPERA Preamp feeding a pair of Audionet Heisenbergs.
(He also has an equally impressive analog setup, which he now rarely listens to.)

He currently has three pairs of speakers: the Lumen Whites, The Sonus Faber Stradavarius Homage and a pair of Linn Isobariks

(We have also integrated a pair of REL Gibraltar G2s for the bottom octave.
Digital Cabling from Snake River, Inakustik, and Black Cat.
Analog abling includes Siltec 35th Anniversary Silver, Kondo Silver, and Ear to Ear power cords)
 
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Walter66

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When I was heavily involved in this field of digital audio, it was before the year 2K, the differences in CD transports were clearly audible.
The higher the pitch accuracy (clock), the more they had invested into a resonance free environment (massive build structure of the housing), the better the sound was.
At that time, I engineered some of the best D/A converters available in private, never brought them to the market, just sold them to friends.
They were made using the legendary Ultra Analog discrete 20 Bit converter units and sounded better than anything at that time, regardless if it was the big Accuphase systems or Sony, you name it. It simply sounded more analog, less digital.

But the big Sony had an excellent drive system and it had a digital output to feed my discrete D/A converter, so I used it.
That was the time when Sony put every effort in their CD players to make them sound great, but they failed. They were able to build and design great drives, but not great sounding CD players.
Today, they could be in the price range of $1K, because they are old now and obsolete technology.
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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I think a good to high quality Transporter playing SACD source that can upsample to 750.6kHz will trounce on any streamer.

Streaming is still in it's infancy regarding development for an excellent sound source compared to CD & SACD play back. I would say give streaming at least another 5 years of development !

As for an analogue source, if it's of a respectable quality and correctly set up then it will trounce on anything especially if it's a reel to reel playback, followed by a TT set-up (with synergistic matching components).

The above is all assuming the source material for the SACD, Tape & Record are all comparable and of good to excellent quality.
 

facten

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FWIW, I Have a well healed, very discerning Japanese client with an amazing six figure digital system I helped him build, yet it's still fronted by a Cambridge transport he loves (begrudgingly, I have to admit, it is an outstanding price performance piece..
It consistently outperforms streaming devices, whether I provide them or from others

I had a Cambridge CXC CD transport for a while, yes it is a good for the money but it was easily outperformed by its replacement a Simaudio 260DT CD transport . I don't stream but I 'd be interested in what streamers is it consistently outperforming?
 

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