How Much Hi-Res do you actually listen to/own compared to Redbook?

[LL21]

Hi All. I am considering my options for digital equipment upgrades. OTOH, I am happy to keep my 16/44 DAC (my favorite dac bar only one) and find the accompanying transport 2nd hand for cents on the dollar (probably a cashless trade)...in which case, i have committed myself to redbook for more than a few years to come. OTOH, i could trade in the DAC for the one DAC i consider superior, plus cash...which also does hi-res. But then thats the budget for the year...and particularly today, a penny saved is a penny earned.

Is hi-res today a bit of a false dawn when the amount of hi-res out there is so limited compared to Redbook...which is also super-cheap on Amazon?

Is hi-res also a false dawn when many have said the mastering job upfront is more important than the ultimate playback format? (FIM, 2L, Propius, Analogue productions, MFSL remastered CDs are all great examples of how great 16/44 can sound! and i have heard plenty of sacds, and a few 24/96 files sound so-so or not appreciably better.)

How much hi-res do you actually listen to and own compared to 16/44 and do you find it consistently superior? (i spoke with someone who has 50 hi-res albums and he said a number of them were disappointing.)

But i would appreciate hearing from more people as i have not personally done any hi-res buying...since i cannot play it at the moment. thanks!!!

 

[Ronm1]

I have many remastered, well-produced Redbook from labels you've listed. I also have plenty of HiRes discs, no files. Rarely is there not an improvement sonically, IMHO, with good h/w, its a win.

Here is my HiRes list

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=7288897&postcount=102

 

[LL21]

Thanks! For some reason the link was not found?

 

[Ronm1]

Fixed

 

[LL21]

Thanks! Nice list!

 

[mep]

I simply can’t imagine buying a new DAC today and not buying something that is capable of playing back hi-rez files. Do all high rez files sound outstanding? No, they don’t. Do you want to limit yourself to strictly playing back RB CD? I know I don’t.
I think the future wave (which is starting to happen now) will be DSD.

 

[LL21]

I simply can’t imagine buying a new DAC today and not buying something that is capable of playing back hi-rez files. Do all high rez files sound outstanding? No, they don’t. Do you want to limit yourself to strictly playing back RB CD? I know I don’t.
I think the future wave (which is starting to happen now) will be DSD.

Thanks for that...it is a very good point, and one i continue to wrestle with hence this thread. again, thanks for that view. I am a big second-hand buyer...so for me, there are fewer options than for others in terms of hi-res dacs. Because 90% of my music is redbook, i also hate the idea of getting the new, new thing and finding out out my existing dac plays redbook better.

And of course, by the time hi-res comes out in mass, i feel sure that hi-res DACs will inevitably have improved as well.

Hence my dilemma. In the end, i do think if i could get the one hi-res DAC i prefer to my 16/44 dac at a sensible price, i would go for that and just enjoy it. working on it... i have had my (second hand) 16/44 dac for 5 years now, and i could easily be happy with it for another few years given that even the scarlattis, emms have not compelled me to switch. so no rush just at the moment but certainly thinking hard given that the re-sale value of my DAC at the moment remains high...and it probably wont be in 3 years...

 

[Ronm1]

As with just about all recordings, the best sources, knowledge in getting the most out of them, nose to console, etc...all make a diff, just increasing resolution and # of bits do help, but its not a magic bullet.

 

[mep]

Loydd-There is obviously something very special about the DAC you own and you may have a hard time letting it go. The thing to remember is that digital ages in dog years which means your DAC is already eligible for social security. If there are members of the Zanden NOS cult who are still willing to pay serious money for your DAC, I would dump it while I still could recoup some serious money out of it. 3 years from now there may be a $200 DAC that will blow away the Zanden in all performance parameters. I’m still blown away at how good the E-MU 0404 sounds for what is basically chump change and it does 24/192. I’m hoping the Mytek stereo 192 represents a significant upgrade when it finally arrives at my house.

There’s a brave new digital world out there Loydd, it might just be time to join it.

 

[LL21]

Loydd-There is obviously something very special about the DAC you own and you may have a hard time letting it go. The thing to remember is that digital ages in dog years which means your DAC is already eligible for social security. If there are members of the Zanden NOS cult who are still willing to pay serious money for your DAC, I would dump it while I still could recoup some serious money out of it. 3 years from now there may be a $200 DAC that will blow away the Zanden in all performance parameters. I’m still blown away at how good the E-MU 0404 sounds for what is basically chump change and it does 24/192. I’m hoping the Mytek stereo 192 represents a significant upgrade when it finally arrives at my house.

There’s a brave new digital world out there Loydd, it might just be time to join it.

Thanks...definitely worth considering. Depreciation is a big deal, hence why i tend to buy 2nd hand...and its worse in digital than just about anywhere else. Fortunately, given that the flagships from DCS, Emm, Krell, ARC have not convinced me to let it go just yet, i think at my cost basis i'll be alright for now. But yes, in 3 years, its another world.

 

[LL21]

As with just about all recordings, the best sources, knowledge in getting the most out of them, nose to console, etc...all make a diff, just increasing resolution and # of bits do help, but its not a magic bullet.

Agree...higher resolution has not equated to greater enjoyment or listenability for me...and in some attempts for resolution, i think many of us had our ears shorn off in the process over the years. That tends to happen to me a lot less in the last 18 months relative to a few years ago, but i have not been overwhelmed by the quality of the hi-res dacs or hi-res samples i have heard. however, i have been impressed by how much better hi-res has gotten over those last 18 months, and i can 'project' where i think it will be in another 18-36 months...hence my fork in the road on my next step in digital. thanks for the feedback!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I was thinking of ordering Fleetwood Mac-Rumours from HDTracks....would this be better than the CD I can get for like $10?

 

[LL21]

Hi John,

I do not own any Fleetwood Mac. That said, i thought there was an Analogue Productions Remaster of Fleetwood Mac...i have had very good experiences so far with their remasters. In general, i have found the Remastered versions i have bought to be "20%-50%" better than my original CDs. 20% for reasonably well recorded stuff...and 50% only where the original blues/jazz album had a lot of hiss and had stereotypically bad 1980's style thin, tinny sound. For example, the Red Garland Trio stuff is much, much better in the remastered versions.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

50:50. Half is hi-rez mch (SACD or BR) and the rest is CD/streaming. Hi-rez streaming is miniscule at this time.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

50:50. Half is hi-rez mch (SACD or BR) and the rest is CD/streaming. Hi-rez streaming is miniscule at this time.

Sounds like I'd be better served with the $10 purchase. Plus I get to actually "own" a physcial product.

 

[fas42]

Everything I've found out over the last 25 years says that there is nothing wrong, nothing whatsoever, with digital source material. In a similar way to LP's, one day everyone will laugh when they think back to the days when they thought it was hard work to get good sound from the digits. The trouble is still the tendency of digital to dirty its own nest during the process of playback -- equivalent to a vinyl cartridge needle rapidly picking up gunk from the groove and the sound choking during playing. So, changing to another format is one method in the meantime of getting around the problems, improving the situation. If you have a great DSD player, convert all your RB CD's to DSD to get the benefit. There's no magic in this, the information content hasn't changed, merely that the playback mechanism is doing a better, more accurate job of turning digital information into analogue signals.

Frank

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

If you love the sound of your Zanden, keep it. There is little hi-res out there, and I'd bet the farm that not a lot more is coming. It's never going to be mainstream. Why? Because most people don't hear it; even people who swear they do. I'm not saying there is no difference, but Google Meyer and Moran. You can't get to the study itself without paying the Boston Audio Society, but you'll find plenty of discussion on both sides, and you'll find out what basically happened: Meyer and Moran ran double blind listening tests comparing hi-res files to exactly the same master, down-sampled to 16/44.1. They ran them in multiple listening rooms, through multiple high end systems, by over 500 subjects over the course of more than a year. The subjects were audiophiles, studio engineers, recording students (young trained ears). Under no circumstances, in any of that testing, did anybody get right answers more frequently than the laws of probability say they would get the same answers flipping a coin.

Does that prove there's no difference between hi-res and Redbook? No. Proof is tough. It requires review, repetition, etc. But it sure provides some compelling evidence to say that the differences, if they exist, are insignificant.

I would not sell off a DAC I love for that kind of difference. I'd spend the same money chasing down the best masters of my favorite music. That will have a lot more impact on your listening experience, and it'll be a lot more fun than swapping boxes.

Tim

 

[LL21]

If you love the sound of your Zanden, keep it. There is little hi-res out there, and I'd bet the from that not a lot more is coming. It's never going to be mainstream. Why? Because most people don't hear it; even people who swear they do. I'm not saying there is no audible difference, but google Meyer and Moran. You can't get to the study itself without paying the Boston Audio Society, but you'll find plenty of discussion on both sides, and you'll find out what basically happened: Meyer and Moran ran double blind listening tests comparing hi-res files to exactly the same master, down-sampled to 16/44.1. They ran them in multiple listening rooms, through multiple high end systems, by over 500 subjects of the course of more than a year. The subjects were audiophiles, studio engineers, recording students (young trained ears). Under no circumstances, in any of that testing, did anybody get right answers more frequently than the laws of probability say they would get the same answers flipping a coin.

Does that prove there's no difference between hi-res and Redbook? No. Proof is tough. It requires review, repetition, etc. But it sure provides some compelling evidence to say that the differences, if they exist, are insignificant.

I would sell of a DAC I love for that kind of difference. I'd spend the same money chasing down the best masters of my favorite music. That will have a lot more impact on your listening experience, and it'll be a lot more fun than swapping boxes.

Tim

Tim, that is spoken with true conviction. Thank you. I respect that a lot.

 

[LenWhite]

I currently own in the neighborhood of 400+ SACD albums. The recording and mastering process is still the most important aspect of great reproduced sound. But all things being equal, SACD has more presence and instrumental definition than RBCD. It could have been because of the source hardware implementation, but the CA I heard through the toslink digital input of my XDS1 didn't sound as good as the matching RBCD.

SACD caters to classical recordings and is still a good avenue for that type of music. If jazz or pop/rock is your preference I still think RBCD is a better alternative than CA assuming you have a good player. Personally I don't think CA is ready for prime time because of too many possible implementation alternatives and complexities, the limited availability of RBCD and higher resolution titles, and lack of album art and literature.

At least from what I've heard so far physical discs sound better, especially well recorded and mastered SACD's. So from my perspective SACD's are certainly worthy of considerationtion.

 

[mep]

If you love the sound of your Zanden, keep it. There is little hi-res out there, and I'd bet the farm that not a lot more is coming. It's never going to be mainstream. Why? Because most people don't hear it; even people who swear they do. I'm not saying there is no difference, but Google Meyer and Moran. You can't get to the study itself without paying the Boston Audio Society, but you'll find plenty of discussion on both sides, and you'll find out what basically happened: Meyer and Moran ran double blind listening tests comparing hi-res files to exactly the same master, down-sampled to 16/44.1. They ran them in multiple listening rooms, through multiple high end systems, by over 500 subjects over the course of more than a year. The subjects were audiophiles, studio engineers, recording students (young trained ears). Under no circumstances, in any of that testing, did anybody get right answers more frequently than the laws of probability say they would get the same answers flipping a coin.

Does that prove there's no difference between hi-res and Redbook? No. Proof is tough. It requires review, repetition, etc. But it sure provides some compelling evidence to say that the differences, if they exist, are insignificant.

I would not sell off a DAC I love for that kind of difference. I'd spend the same money chasing down the best masters of my favorite music. That will have a lot more impact on your listening experience, and it'll be a lot more fun than swapping boxes.

Tim

I thought the Meyer and Moran study was discredited. Either way, I still think you are wrong. More and more hi-rez files are released every week. If you don't believe it, subscribe to HDtracks.net and get their weekly updates. CDs are disappearing from stores. You are lucky to find the top 10 on the charts in stock. It's all going to go to downloads and there is no reason why there won't be more hi-rez downloads. There are already sites offering DSD downloads and I expect the trend to continue.