How much is too much?

[Phelonious Ponk]

I haven't heard anyone saying it doesn't deliver, only that there is not much in the box

Makes you wonder what all that other stuff is doing in all those other boxes. I have two amps, a preamp and a DAC on a plate in my speaker box, which is probably smaller than that amp. And it delivers in spades. But the key there, I think, is that it knows exactly what it will be up against in terms of speaker load and doesn't have to be over-engineered to drive multiple drivers through crossover networks into loads that can get heavy...and downright weird. If you know exactly what you're building for it is quite an advantage.

Tim

 

[fas42]

Going back to the Convergent, it's obvious that all the "stuff" is under the heat sinks on either side of the power supply bits in the middle. For Pete's sake, do you have to actually have see every bit of what makes it work? By that standard the engine of a modern MB or BMW is a piece of rubbish: open the hood and all you see is a massive lump of plastic covering everything ...

Frank

 

[DaveyF]

Going back to the Convergent, it's obvious that all the "stuff" is under the heat sinks on either side of the power supply bits in the middle. For Pete's sake, do you have to actually have see every bit of what makes it work? By that standard the engine of a modern MB or BMW is a piece of rubbish: open the hood and all you see is a massive lump of plastic covering everything ...

Frank

The Convergent, Frank like in the Convergent SL1 or

Going back to the CF mono blocks that Keith posted... the manufacturer is supposedly claiming that his design approach...a minimalist one, is done on purpose as to maximize the sound. I wonder if one shouldn't take into consideration his approach before deriding him. I haven't heard these amps, and frankly I would doubt anyone here has either, I suppose it is possible that they are superior, or as least as good, as the better known gear that one knows sounds great...( like the Dart's of the world ,etc.)
Perhaps we all shouldn't jump to conclusions based on what we see is inside that box....OTOH, it sure is suspicious that something built like that could hold a candle to the kind of gear that I mentioned above. But then who knows
IMO, the only way to tell is to listen for oneself....which brings up the question that IF they are superb sounding, would you pay the asking price given how they are put together

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The Convergent, Frank like in the Convergent SL1 or

Going back to the CF mono blocks that Keith posted... the manufacturer is supposedly claiming that his design approach...a minimalist one, is done on purpose as to maximize the sound. I wander if one shouldn't take into consideration his approach before deriding him. I haven't heard these amps, and frankly I would doubt anyone here has either, I suppose it is possible that they are superior, or as least as good, as the better known gear that one knows sounds great...( like the Dart's of the world ,etc.)
Perhaps we all shouldn't jump to conclusions based on what we see is inside that box....OTOH, it sure is suspicious that something built like that could hold a candle to the kind of gear that I mentioned above. But then who knows
IMO, the only way to tell is to listen for oneself....which brings up the question that IF they are superb sounding, would you pay the asking price given how they are put together

No conclusions here, Davey. It could sound great for all I know. I just think the oversized box is funny. If you put size 9 shoes in a size 13 box does that...never mind.

Tim

 

[KeithR]

The Convergent, Frank like in the Convergent SL1 or

Going back to the CF mono blocks that Keith posted... the manufacturer is supposedly claiming that his design approach...a minimalist one, is done on purpose as to maximize the sound. I wander if one shouldn't take into consideration his approach before deriding him. I haven't heard these amps, and frankly I would doubt anyone here has either, I suppose it is possible that they are superior, or as least as good, as the better known gear that one knows sounds great...( like the Dart's of the world ,etc.)
Perhaps we all shouldn't jump to conclusions based on what we see is inside that box....OTOH, it sure is suspicious that something built like that could hold a candle to the kind of gear that I mentioned above. But then who knows
IMO, the only way to tell is to listen for oneself....which brings up the question that IF they are superb sounding, would you pay the asking price given how they are put together

Actually I have a friend who owned the entire Concert Fidelity/Silicon Arts setup. Said they sounded great---although he's a gear head and changes entire systems every 3 months. he much preferred his Vac Phi to the CF---which costs 1/3 the price retail. now owns a Soulution 710.

I have heard the CF gear on Reference 3A equipment at THE Show sound damn good despite room problems---but this has nothing to do with the fact his "minimalist" approach is a joke and someone is pocketing all the money. Google his phono stage---which I have posted on this sight and is 10k for less than 500 bucks in parts.

I have not had the pleasure of such equipment in my system of course--and that is really the only way to know if something sounds good. I thought the Ref3A Grand Veena speakers sounded great in that room however.

 

[fas42]

The Convergent, Frank like in the Convergent SL1 or

Yes, silly me, of course I meant to refer to the Concert Fidelity, and my statements still stand. Rather than have the heatsinks on the side, vertically, the designer has placed them horizontally, above the circuit. This means a bigger box, and he has also created an air space above them, perhaps to help the heat generated cause less disturbances to componentry. This may have been very precisely tested to give the best result for his circuit, so the downside for the owner is a very large box. Why you are paying big money is to reward the designer for being fastidious in getting exactly what he's after ..

DartZeel's designer is using the same mindset and not too many people are laughing at him. Ahhh, but that's different, he's Swiss, magic stuff is being injected ...

Frank

 

[DaveyF]

Actually I have a friend who owned the entire Concert Fidelity/Silicon Arts setup. Said they sounded great---although he's a gear head and changes entire systems every 3 months. he much preferred his Vac Phi to the CF---which costs 1/3 the price retail. now owns a Soulution 710.

I have heard the CF gear on Reference 3A equipment at THE Show sound damn good despite room problems---but this has nothing to do with the fact his "minimalist" approach is a joke and someone is pocketing all the money. Google his phono stage---which I have posted on this sight and is 10k for less than 500 bucks in parts.

I have not had the pleasure of such equipment in my system of course--and that is really the only way to know if something sounds good. I thought the Ref3A Grand Veena speakers sounded great in that room however.

Keith, one has to wonder how many circuits are out there that have superfluous parts in them that are there just for show It is pretty obvious that if most people are going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for gear, that they would expect a myriad of costly parts and a great looking exterior to go along with them. OTOH, I have to wonder how much of that is marketing

As I said before, the question is how saleable would a piece be if it was small and very plain jane with just a few minor parts, BUT had the sound of the gods---IF such a piece is in fact even possible. ( Frank, you do NOT need to chime in here oh, OK)
Personally, I would consider such a piece of gear if it truly delivered the goods and was as plain jane and simple as could be.....I would presume the circuit was special. OTOH, when I look at my gear, it sure doesn't hurt that is easy on the eyes.....at least as far as the WAF is concerned

 

[mep]

I wander if one shouldn't take into consideration his approach before deriding him.

Davey-There you go wandering again instead of wondering. We need to fix your ADD so your mind wonders instead of wandering.

 

[DaveyF]

Which got me to thinking about my experience last night shopping for HDMI cables.... It used to be that all of these cables were priced at $40+ and there were no real hi-end contenders. Now it seems that I can buy an HDMI cable for as little as $1.50-, or I can opt for Monster Cables and the like which start at $50- and go up.
A friend of mine who was shopping with me for the cables, and who is an electrical engineer, stated that there could be no difference in the two cables except for the packaging, the quality of the connectors and the industrial design, to explain the price difference....absolutely no reason for performance differences from a technical stand-point.
Noel Lee is certainly one of the great marketers, question is...do I believe my friend?

 

[DaveyF]

Davey-There you go wandering again instead of wondering. We need to fix your ADD so your mind wonders instead of wandering.

Mark, That's what happens when I type too quickly I wander off into the land of ether typing

 

[mep]

Since Amir plays with video products, maybe Amir can jump in here and tell us if he has compared HDMI cables and if there is any difference. I don't obsess over HDMI cables other than making sure they are long enough to reach.

 

[egidius]

The Convergent, Frank like in the Convergent SL1 or

Going back to the CF mono blocks that Keith posted... the manufacturer is supposedly claiming that his design approach...a minimalist one, is done on purpose as to maximize the sound. I wonder if one shouldn't take into consideration his approach before deriding him. I haven't heard these amps, and frankly I would doubt anyone here has either, I suppose it is possible that they are superior, or as least as good, as the better known gear that one knows sounds great...( like the Dart's of the world ,etc.)
Perhaps we all shouldn't jump to conclusions based on what we see is inside that box....OTOH, it sure is suspicious that something built like that could hold a candle to the kind of gear that I mentioned above. But then who knows
IMO, the only way to tell is to listen for oneself....which brings up the question that IF they are superb sounding, would you pay the asking price given how they are put together

I just wanted to chime in on the same lines: I have used Berning amplification for some years. Those are no nonsense items. Just recently I have stumbled over an exquisite Audio Consulting Mipa (mains independent power amp) and it just gets things right in a way I have not heard yet - but when you look into the amp, you would not necessarily see this, even though you can appreciate the hand made clean approach with free wires etc.
No, this concert fidelity might be a very bad example in this connection??

 

[egidius]

..at some stage somebody said "the best is just good enough". But me being a very realistic guy and professional musician, who actually works every day for being "the best" (meaning, you cannot buy it, you have to practice it!), i would rather turn it around and say if it is good enough, then its the best! LOL

 

[JackD201]

Keith,

A year ago I went to Akihabara in Tokyo and checked out the big audio stores. If you see the retail prices of Japanese made high end gear there and compare it with the US prices. You'll know who is making the money. If Japan used 120V instead of 100 these guys would be out of business.

Jack