Apparently not, with 4 pages so far
All sales do not go through Audiogon, Private sales are very common ...There seems to be an agreement that the process is flawed what are the suggestions to better it?
hpsoundings II
- Thread starter Gregadd
- Start date
Apparently not, with 4 pages so far
All sales do not go through Audiogon, Private sales are very common ...There seems to be an agreement that the process is flawed what are the suggestions to better it?
Any other conspiracy theories you'd like to offer? Reviewers are paid off in tubes for reviews? Free cartridges? Trips to strip clubs? Vacations to the Carribean?
Offer some definitive proof first instead of innuendo because this line of argument is simply insulting. Yeah look at all those reviewers getting rich selling used equipment. Think I saw some of them listed at the latest Forbes 500.
Provide some proof of the turnover rate of equipment for the average reviewer. Answer you can't but I can tell you the newest component in my system is six months old (cartridge) while everything else is close to two years old. Maybe reviewers make better choices in buying equipment because they have a better opportunity to hear a variety of gear before buying? Possibly???
Lighten up. It's just a hobby.......
---- Not for everyone; for some people it is a living, a serious job, one that pays the bills and put the food on the table, plus few more things.
Apparently not, with 4 pages so far
There seems to be an agreement that the process is flawed what are the suggestions to better it?
Do a search Frantz. There have already been two or three threads devoted to this same topic since WBF rolled out.
Myles
The way forward is through criticisms. The thread is of interest to many here. Those are valid concerns and addressing them with respect and politeness will perhaps make things better. The fact that it comes back is a testimony to the interest. You may chose to abstain it changes not much to the subject ..
I'll grant you that there is not much HP in the thread ...
The way forward is through criticisms. The thread is of interest to many here. Those are valid concerns and addressing them with respect and politeness will perhaps make things better. The fact that it comes back is a testimony to the interest. You may chose to abstain it changes not much to the subject ..
I'll grant you that there is not much HP in the thread ...
---- Very true; at least half of most reviews nowadays are words taken directly from the manufacturer's avertising publicity.
I mean a reviewer is using 5,000 words in his review of a certain product, for example, well, 2,500 words are from the manufacturer's advertisement pages.
You want some examples?
My number of posts on the ethical issue of accommodations was not meant to overstate the problem; to the contrary, I've been attempting isolate what the real issue is. There were some legitimate points raised by A. Wayne, but I think more common, and perhaps more insurmountable, is simply reviewer bias which has nothing to do with any 'conspiracy' or underhanded dealing. That is, the reviewer tends to favor a certain sound, brand or approach that influences his/her 'take' on a piece of equipment. There's nothing you can do about that, other than to know as a reader, that particular writer's penchant. Doc is right about the appearance of impropriety, a standard that applies in virtually all professions. I think the abuses that could occur here with respect to accommodations and reviewing bias are outliers compared to the more insidious and absolutely unfixable problem that we are human and have certain biases as part of the package. Maybe that's why reviewing by 'spec' seems so appealing to some.
Extremely well said. My apologies for unintentionally taking this thread off track...
Myles
The way forward is through criticisms. The thread is of interest to many here. Those are valid concerns and addressing them with respect and politeness will perhaps make things better. The fact that it comes back is a testimony to the interest. You may chose to abstain it changes not much to the subject ..
I'll grant you that there is not much HP in the thread ...
But the exact same things have already been said in the other threads. There's nothing new being posted.
So you suggest that we drop the issue and continue with a model known to be flawed? The staus quo is good enough? in your opinion? The issue needs to be debated and maybe something will come out of it ...
I don't see why anyone should apologize ... The issues of ethics in High End Audio are an important subject of debate. I , for one, think reviewing to be useful. Anything that reinforce the worth and value of a review should have been be welcome.
I also believe that we have to develop a thicker skin. A person may strongly disagree, as long as he/she remains polite and respectful. Throwing epithet at him or her because a comment or post irks is to me unwarranted. A. Wayne did take some flak for his comments. They may be strong but I don't think they were disrespectful. Politeness and frankness can coexist in a forum in my opinion...
The main question is what people expect from a review. IMHO, an isolated review has almost zero value. Only after you know the reviewer, his preferences and system you can decide if the review would be significant to you. And, if you are looking for advise, it is your responsibility to read other reviews from other sources, even other countries and merge the opinions coming from them. And after that you still have to listen ...
From my perspective audio reviewing has mainly an informational purpose - I do no expect a reviewer to tell me if I should buy or not buy any think. But if he finds serious flaws in equipment I expect him to warn the readers. And yes, many reviews have low quality - but this does not mean that the reviewer has no integrity.
From my perspective audio reviewing has mainly an informational purpose - I do no expect a reviewer to tell me if I should buy or not buy any think. But if he finds serious flaws in equipment I expect him to warn the readers. And yes, many reviews have low quality - but this does not mean that the reviewer has no integrity.
Yes we have. Mainly because such a think does not exist. The worlds greatest system is just a soundbyte.
Conspiracy theories , what too much estrogen ...!!!!
You must have missed it , we were in discussion , so keep singling me out , my concern and assertations had nothing to do with selling equipment , I never discussed selling or paying off, reviewers, i was discussing the possible improprieties that " could " take place with reviewers owning and receiving equipment .....
Shhhhheeeesh
Did we reach any consensus in the other threads? What makes you think we will now?
Making accusations without proof isn't any different than McCarthyism. As Greg is so fond of saying, these charges would never hold up in court.
Wrong hormone.
Perhaps you should reread what you wrote then because there's a big disconnect between what you think you said and what you actually said.
Really Doc? How come every doctor’s office I visit is decorated in Early Pharmaceutical Salesman? Calendars, clocks, soap dispensers, knick-knacks, they all have some drug name on them. The medical profession has been riddled with remuneration for the number of prescriptions written for certain drugs. Golf outings, vacations, etc. I also don’t think it’s any accident that lots of pharmaceutical salespeople are women. And not your frumpy variety either-I’m talking good looking sexy women who are much more likely to get the time and attention of male doctors, generals, and admirals.
I agree with Myles-we have been down this road before and it ended up nowhere.
Frantz-How are we going to solve anything here and make the audio world a better place? The last time this thread was trotted out, I said I wish the current distribution model was thrown out and we could all buy our gear at the prices manufacturers charge the dealers. However, that would put all dealers out of business (and many of them have gone under for other reasons) and you would have no place to go and hear gear and no help to get it to your house and set up according to the way the manufacturer wants it set up.
The other thread ended up the same way this one will-people taking pot shots at reviewers and saying they are all crooked and getting rich off of selling their gear at higher prices than what they paid for it while lamenting that we non-reviewers can’t buy gear at accommodation prices. Not to mention some bruised feelings along the way. I’m surprised we are going down this dirt road again to tell you the truth. We damn sure didn’t “fix” anything last time. The only thing different this time around is we have a few more hardcore cynics that are throwing hardballs at reviewers than we did the last time.
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