If you could..what would you......??

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,862
52
48
La Jolla, Calif USA
#41
Davey, I enjoyed the Q1s when I heard them. They are extremely resolving and low in distortion. I have not directly compared them in the same system, so I can't say if I prefer one to the other. They did replace the Mini II and AW and JV certainly stated that the Q1 is much better. I spoke to an employee at a dealer who has directly compared them, and he preferred the low frequencies of the Mini II and told me that he does not think the Q1 is clearly superior. He bought the Mini II as it was being discontinued. I would someday like to compare them.

I much prefer the looks of the Mini II. I also think the Q1 was less expensive to manufacture and that may be another reason Magico replaced the Mini II. I don't see many used samples of either up for sale. I don't know how many Q1s they sold. Perhaps people think they get more speaker with the S3.

One reason that I never upgraded to the Q1 is because a new Q1 was $25K while I could only get about $10K for my used Mini II. I put that $15K towards other changes in my system which I thought would bring me greater improvements in sound quality. I never saw a used Q1 for sale. It would be interesting to see the value compared to the value of a used Mini II. Probably not that different, but I really don't know.
Peter, right now on A'gon there is a pair of Q1's for $16K. I have to agree with you, many times a replacement is brought about due solely to the fact that it is cheaper for the manufacturer to build. Such was the case with the Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage replacements...the Memento's, the Evolutions and now the new Traditions. All of which are clearly less expensive to construct than the high cost of the original.
However, how many times has a company in high end audio ( or for that matter anywhere ) brought out a new product and were absolutely honest about it...thereby stating that it is inferior to the product that it replaces!!!
Yet, and particularly in our hobby, I believe this happens frequently...:(

I would be very interested to hear a side by side comparison of your excellent Mini 2's and the newer Q1's. Although, I must say, I do think the Q3's were an amazing speaker and easily bested the older V3's.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,062
87
48
North Shore of Boston
#42
Peter, right now on A'gon there is a pair of Q1's for $16K. I have to agree with you, many times a replacement is brought about due solely to the fact that it is cheaper for the manufacturer to build. Such was the case with the Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage replacements...the Memento's, the Evolutions and now the new Traditions. All of which are clearly less expensive to construct than the high cost of the original.
However, how many times has a company in high end audio ( or for that matter anywhere ) brought out a new product and were absolutely honest about it...thereby stating that it is inferior to the product that it replaces!!!
Yet, and particularly in our hobby, I believe this happens frequently...:(

I would be very interested to hear a side by side comparison of your excellent Mini 2's and the newer Q1's. Although, I must say, I do think the Q3's were an amazing speaker and easily bested the older V3's.
Davey, I agree with you about the Q3/V3. The Q3 is much better and does represent an incredible value on the used market, IMO. I have seen a couple of pairs listed for about $22k, a quarter of the price of a new pair of M3s. Honestly, as I continue to work on the sound of my system, I remain impressed by the Mini 2's ability to reveal various improvements. They do not seem to be the weak spot in my system, yet. I'd love to hear the Q3s in my system, but it is difficult to actually audition a used pair, and it would be a hassle to do the moving. They are small but incredibly heavy. I'm sure the Q3s would give me much more resolution and extension than my Mini 2s. Having heard the Q1s, I do not think they would be enough of an upgrade, and I just do not like the way they look.

This is a thread about fantasizing. Back in reality, I am in no hurry to replace my Mini 2s.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,862
52
48
La Jolla, Calif USA
#43
Davey, I agree with you about the Q3/V3. The Q3 is much better and does represent an incredible value on the used market, IMO. I have seen a couple of pairs listed for about $22k, a quarter of the price of a new pair of M3s. Honestly, as I continue to work on the sound of my system, I remain impressed by the Mini 2's ability to reveal various improvements. They do not seem to be the weak spot in my system, yet. I'd love to hear the Q3s in my system, but it is difficult to actually audition a used pair, and it would be a hassle to do the moving. They are small but incredibly heavy. I'm sure the Q3s would give me much more resolution and extension than my Mini 2s. Having heard the Q1s, I do not think they would be enough of an upgrade, and I just do not like the way they look.

This is a thread about fantasizing. Back in reality, I am in no hurry to replace my Mini 2s.
Peter, I totally understand your position with regards to your speakers. If you like what you already have, ( which in my case is also the situation) then why replace them? This thread is indeed about fantasizing, however, I think some of these fantasies, can and should, be useful to all in regards to the aspect of understanding what others desire and why. Also, it is useful to understand what synergy others expect in their existing rooms and systems.
OTOH, we always think/believe that there is a speaker out there that will bring us to the 'next level'- whatever that is. I'm hesitant to replace my speakers like you, not just because I truly like what they do, but also because I am concerned that in my particular room, almost all replacements would be a step backwards. ( A very nice fellow a'phile recently told me that he thought my speakers were the very best suited for this space and impossible to replace with anything that could better them!!!) I suspect that you probably feel the same way as i do...and there's nothing wrong with that. ( I think???):confused::D
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,018
56
48
Greater Boston
#44
I never get where the concept of large speaker means large room. Generally larger speakers have larger drivers, which makes them more adept to a smallef space since they have higher directinality. Basically the opposite is true of what people want to think.
In my experience large speakers need a certain distance from the listener so that the drivers blend into a coherent whole. This may be problematic in small rooms.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,018
56
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Greater Boston
#45
If you could replace your current speakers with another make/model...and budget was no issue; what would your #1 choice be?

However, let’s make this a little more interesting...to add to the question, let’s assume that your current room and your current electronics have to be taken into consideration. So, if you have a small room, then automatically nominating a speaker like the Wilson Wamms would not work. If you have a liking for a very inefficient speaker and you already own and like a flea powered amp, then nominating Apogee Scintilla’s would not work, etc.,

Ok, let’s hear em...:cool:
My #1 choice for my room (24 x 12 x 8.5 ft) and amplification (Octave R320 amp ordered) is my current speakers, the Reference 3A Reflector*), their top-level monitor. I recently upgraded to them from Reference 3A MM de Capo BE Monitors. A pair of subwoofers that should match their high resolution, JL Fathom 112v2, are ordered as well.

If I had great financial resources I'd be interested in a house with a second, very large room with Magico M6 speakers and matching amplification, for orchestral and other large-scale music. I'd keep my current system in a mid-sized room like mine for smaller-scale music on which monitors particularly excel, in terms of intimacy, presence and disappearance from the soundstage.

____________

*) see also here to get a cursory idea of the cabinet depth
 

john95

New Member
Apr 17, 2018
23
0
0
#47
If I could, I'd get the B&W 800 D3 ($30K) with the Bryston 28B3 mono 1,000 watts ($22K) or the 803 D3 ($17K) with the Bryston 7B3 mono 600 watts ($12k)
I guess with $100K I'd be OK including a good Turntable, a good Preamp, a good DAC for 24/96 audio files, speaker cables, interconnects and a good chair. Even if I have to deal with all the heat? Well, I don't know:D
 

gadawg58

New Member
Apr 7, 2018
6
0
1
#49
I have Sasha 2's now and plan on upgrading in 5-6 years to the then current version of the Wilson XLF's. Room is a 24X20X9. Have the new Levinson Mono's and while I won't have to change them out I might ... who knows? :)

George
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,054
33
48
Manila, Philippines
#50
Done. Went from VR-11 SE Mk2s to customized Ultra 11s. Happy day as they are being loaded onto the container today. :)
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
2,066
261
83
Bangkok
#51
Done. Went from VR-11 SE Mk2s to customized Ultra 11s. Happy day as they are being loaded onto the container today. :)
You have got to do a glass coating over that beautiful Lambo blue behemoth, Jack.

Tang:)
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#52
In my experience large speakers need a certain distance from the listener so that the drivers blend into a coherent whole. This may be problematic in small rooms.
Here is the thing that may not be obvious and which addresses partly this question. Even though Mike L's Evolution Acoustics MM7s are 7' tall, and one might think that one must listen fairly far away for the drivers to integrate, because the MM7 is a D'Appolito (M-T-M) configuration (ribbon tweeter in the center, with a midrange driver above and below the tweeter, and a mid-bass driver above and below the midrange drivers) the distance from the first low mid-bass driver to the first high mid-bass driver is only 3 1/2' or 4' -- the height of a modest floor-standing speaker.

So you do not have to worry much about distance for drivers to integrate in a a 7' tower -- you have a full-range system in the same space as a modest floor-stander. And if you think only about the tweeter and the midrange drivers in the MM7 then you are looking at a bookshelf speaker.
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
202
3
18
United Kingdom
#53
Here is the thing that may not be obvious and which addresses partly this question. Even though Mike L's Evolution Acoustics MM7s are 7' tall, and one might think that one must listen fairly far away for the drivers to integrate, because the MM7 is a D'Appolito (M-T-M) configuration (ribbon tweeter in the center, with a midrange driver above and below the tweeter, and a mid-bass driver above and below the midrange drivers) the distance from the first low mid-bass driver to the first high mid-bass driver is only 3 1/2' or 4' -- the height of a modest floor-standing speaker.

So you do not have to worry much about distance for drivers to integrate in a a 7' tower -- you have a full-range system in the same space as a modest floor-stander. And if you think only about the tweeter and the midrange drivers in the MM7 then you are looking at a bookshelf speaker.
Intriguing...does that also impact the room interactions? Normally i'd aver to a 7' tower in a 9' room....

Correct me if wrong but i believe that 9' is the height of Mike's ceiling....

Such has puzzled as I'd have thought the proximity would create interference...and from all i've read..yet to discern that is the case.

Which suggests that the "top" two mid bass drivers of the MTM tower are not problematic with respect to ceiling interactions..
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,062
87
48
North Shore of Boston
#54
Here is the thing that may not be obvious and which addresses partly this question. Even though Mike L's Evolution Acoustics MM7s are 7' tall, and one might think that one must listen fairly far away for the drivers to integrate, because the MM7 is a D'Appolito (M-T-M) configuration (ribbon tweeter in the center, with a midrange driver above and below the tweeter, and a mid-bass driver above and below the midrange drivers) the distance from the first low mid-bass driver to the first high mid-bass driver is only 3 1/2' or 4' -- the height of a modest floor-standing speaker.

So you do not have to worry much about distance for drivers to integrate in a a 7' tower -- you have a full-range system in the same space as a modest floor-stander. And if you think only about the tweeter and the midrange drivers in the MM7 then you are looking at a bookshelf speaker.
Ron, did you listen to a solo cello, piano or voice on MikeL's system? The two instruments should tell you right away if the drivers are integrated at the nearfield position. I will never forget a truly horrible rendition of a cello from a pair of Altec horns when sitting nearfield. Rather than being solid and grounded in space, different registers were staggered in depth and the image of the instrument was completely disjointed.

I suspect that these issues don't exist in Mike's large speakers given all of the positive reports about the sound of his system. Nevertheless, how did the sound change as you moved around the room or to the seats further back? I know that with my speakers that have drivers pretty close to each other, I still need to be about 9' from the speaker for everything to sound completely coherent and well integrated. I'm sure there are other factors involved also like the crossover, dispersion patterns and other factors, but I agree with Al that, in my experience, listening nearfield to very large cone speakers can be problematic. That is one reason I had two way monitors on stands for so long.
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,054
33
48
Manila, Philippines
#55
You have got to do a glass coating over that beautiful Lambo blue behemoth, Jack.

Tang:)
Glass on metallic pearl...check! :D

Thanks Tang!
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,054
33
48
Manila, Philippines
#56
Ron, did you listen to a solo cello, piano or voice on MikeL's system? The two instruments should tell you right away if the drivers are integrated at the nearfield position. I will never forget a truly horrible rendition of a cello from a pair of Altec horns when sitting nearfield. Rather than being solid and grounded in space, different registers were staggered in depth and the image of the instrument was completely disjointed.

I suspect that these issues don't exist in Mike's large speakers given all of the positive reports about the sound of his system. Nevertheless, how did the sound change as you moved around the room or to the seats further back? I know that with my speakers that have drivers pretty close to each other, I still need to be about 9' from the speaker for everything to sound completely coherent and well integrated. I'm sure there are other factors involved also like the crossover, dispersion patterns and other factors, but I agree with Al that, in my experience, listening nearfield to very large cone speakers can be problematic. That is one reason I had two way monitors on stands for so long.
You answered your own questions in the second paragraph Peter. Quite well too I might add. :)

My rule of thumb is that if the midrange is run say close or around the 70s then near field is not so much of an issue. If the woofers come in higher than that and if there is a prodigious amount of bass in addition, maybe a smaller speaker or a larger room would be less problematic or challenging.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,062
87
48
North Shore of Boston
#57
You answered your own questions in the second paragraph Peter. Quite well too I might add. :)

My rule of thumb is that if the midrange is run say close or around the 70s then near field is not so much of an issue. If the woofers come in higher than that and if there is a prodigious amount of bass in addition, maybe a smaller speaker or a larger room would be less problematic or challenging.
Thanks Jack. My question was whether or not Ron listened to solo cello, piano or voice on MikeL's system. I also asked how the sound changed as he moved around the room. How did I answer that in the second paragraph?
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
2,503
86
48
Switzerland
#58
If you could replace your current speakers with another make/model...and budget was no issue; what would your #1 choice be?

However, let’s make this a little more interesting...to add to the question, let’s assume that your current room and your current electronics have to be taken into consideration. So, if you have a small room, then automatically nominating a speaker like the Wilson Wamms would not work. If you have a liking for a very inefficient speaker and you already own and like a flea powered amp, then nominating Apogee Scintilla’s would not work, etc.,

Ok, let’s hear em...:cool:
The Aries Cerat Symphonia...I admit to being biased on this choice.

For a classic speakers I would choose the JBL Hartsfield (refurbished and with a super tweeter) or the JBL Paragon (same drivers and later ones had a good tweeter). Both are full horn designs and from what I have heard sound wonderful.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#59
Ron, did you listen to a solo cello, piano or voice on MikeL's system? The two instruments should tell you right away if the drivers are integrated at the nearfield position. I will never forget a truly horrible rendition of a cello from a pair of Altec horns when sitting nearfield. Rather than being solid and grounded in space, different registers were staggered in depth and the image of the instrument was completely disjointed.

. . .
Not solo cello or piano. The closest thing to solo voice we listened to was Amanda McBroom's "The Rose" on Growing Up in Hollywood Town (Sheffield Lab 13).
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,162
92
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#60

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