I think it doesn't make them experts but leads to very good speaker setup most of the time. It's not the same as having Jim or Stirling stop by but it's a good starting point.
"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."
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I think it doesn't make them experts but leads to very good speaker setup most of the time. It's not the same as having Jim or Stirling stop by but it's a good starting point.
I know of one former Wilson owner who thought the dealer was terrible at helping to set up the speakers.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
And you know this how? What you stating is strictly your opinion with no facts at all.
I can tell you that you are terribly wrong and its why people like Stirling and Jim are in business.
Their not time aligned/coherent/coincident either...
Who cares they sound good .
Kharma exquisite classic and Rockport Lyras are phase aligned loudspeakers .
You dont need measuring gear for that , you can hear it .... at least some can
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I know lots of clients who were unhappy with set up by various brands.
Its not all the dealer either. When clients demand large discounts they wont get great service if any
Well...actually not that good...Who cares they sound good .
Kharma exquisite classic and Rockport Lyras are phase aligned loudspeakers .
You dont need measuring gear for that , you can hear it .... at least some can
Bill Peugh and I talk a bit about the training process. It just seems very interactive and thorough.
uh, doubtful...the Avior II review in Stereophile shows that it is not phase or time aligned...just look at the data...you are a speaker designer, no?Who cares they sound good .
Kharma exquisite classic and Rockport Lyras are phase aligned loudspeakers .
You dont need measuring gear for that , you can hear it .... at least some can
No doubt there are some dealers that are better than others. Some years of field experience may be valuable.
There is only so much you can do in a X over (incl changing polarity of drivers ) to compensate for phase shift induced by coils and caps in a X over
Don't be so harsh, for many manufacturers a flat frequency response is more important than correct timing. then the timimg can suffer.Their not time aligned/coherent/coincident either...
cabasse were among the first to use stepped baffles for multi-way loudspeakers in order to act more coherent.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
OY VEY! So you asked the Wilson sales guy if what they are doing is good?
Look with all due respect you do not have the experience to judge this. No matter how many names you drop or calls you make set up is a very different skill set than being an audio salesman or a reviewer or a cook or a car dealer or whatever. It requires experience and a set of defined goals.Many of the reviewers dont do there own set ups. Harry did and had a set up staff.
Set up takes more than a ruler and a chart since if the speaker is placed wrong, or the chair is placed wrong, or the acoustics are wrong,or the room has issues those numbers are not going to help very much.
Of course that takes more than a ruler and a chart!
But the WASP training is a programmatic way of determining where the chair and speakers go. That's why Wilson wants the dealer to include key personnel on the installation team in the training.
All you are doing here is showing you don't know what the WASP does.
You can argue how effective the training is but it is fairly unique in the industry for a manufacturer to pay for a multi-day training course for dealers.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
its replies like this that make people want to insult you. You just keep regurgitating the company line and talk about what you dont know.
I was a Wilson dealer twice. I know what their training is and I know Peter and Bill for many years.
Your comment still does not explain and you dont get it, that a few days training does not make up for a lifetime of experiences.
You want the last word great. You want to name drop great.
You were never a dealer so you have no clue who plays dealers to go for training. I have been to dozens of companies all over the world.
Wilson has their system , terrific but its not the bow and arrow its the Indian that counts.
Its truly insulting to so many here that you keep this up. There are so many here that have real experience and don't quote manuals, and literature .
Like what you like , enjoy it b ut truly you are way off base defending what is not defendable.
If this training worked so well Peter and others would not be traveling all over the world to do the set ups themselves.
Why did you need Jim Smith to come fix what Wilson had originally done?
Why did 9 systems at Munich sound so mediocre? Why do only a few dealers produce good sound ?
If this system was so good , so easy and so reliable why is there so much diversity in outcome?
Its not the charts or the tables or the areas of neutrality its always the chef that cooks the meal.
I dont doubt there are qualified excellent Wilson set up people but it involves knowing what your doing more than just how to do it.
I am not being harsh...simply stating a fact. Have you ever heard a digitally corrected speaker where you can A/B from passive to digitally corrected? Pretty shocking the improvement. Designers who don't think it matters should do this and see what they have left on the table with their design. Now, I realize that many have a taboo against doing digital correction but done right it can be transparent. You have to use the engine only in the digital, feed a good reclocker to eliminate the jitter from the digital correction and then to your top DAC of choice. Obviously, if the designer wants to try to do it passively, he may throw the baby out with the bathwater as we say (don't know if there is the same saying in German or not).
I hate the term given industry expert on here but there are few on here who are that and much more no doubt Elliot being of the tops here. i think it’s outstanding how calm he keeps himself on here lol. must be on Xanax or something. I am far from knowing but I do respect those who do.
Jim didn’t have to fix anything. Peter’s setup sounded very good. Jim did refinements that took what Peter did to a higher level. We really just played with the distance apart and that was an area that Peter said I should experiment with. Jim also added acoustic panels and did a bunch of stuff not related to speaker placement.
Wilson can’t have someone with Jim or Stirling’s experience do every setup. But they can train dealers to do a good job.
Why do you keep bringing up Munich? I wasn’t there and privy to what was or was not done.
It depends of the frequencies being addressed - full spectrum or just the crossover points. The four combos are in fact different semantics for two. It was referred in the links I posted and in John Atkisnon original note.
Some weeks WBF audiophiles explain us that shows are not the proper place to hear systems, that audiophile recordings are a sign of poor musical taste and re-issues are always inferior to originals, next week WBF audiophiles refer to their show listening, to their latest audiophile recording and to the great re-issue they bought ...
It is part of the hobby!
Shows are mainly a marketing activity ruled by local distributors - most times manufacturers have little opinion on it.
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