"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[Ron Resnick]

Look ron ked pretends to know everything

I think it's fair to criticize Kedar for certain things, such as excessive black-and-white-ness (excessive binary-ness).

But I do not think Kedar pretends to know everything. I think that is an unfair and incorrect criticism.

Kedar tries to be intellectually honest, and limits his reports to actual auditions, and actual listening experiences and actual direct comparisons. Kedar does less theoretical extrapolation than I do.

 

[bonzo75]

Look ron ked pretends to know everything and basically sees his way as the only way.
If somebody else would ve said it i might have said nothing .

For other readers, Andro's piss comes from the fact that I visited him many years ago and he wanted me to write about the speaker he had made that he wanted to sell for 50k. I didn't write about it. Simple.

I didn’t write shot this till now either had simply told him to ignore me and I would do the same but he keeps butting in personally even though I haven’t responded to him in months

 

[Ron Resnick]

I would suggest that all those with big speakers and with budget so that they could afford these big speakers, do a relative inexpensive experiment. That goes for you, Tang, Wilson owners, panel owners, etc. Not discriminating

Buy Devore Orangutan O96, used. And a NAF 2a3 integrated. So you require very little space or electronics in terms of storage on floor or rack in your audio room.

Then, for a few weeks, move your big speakers back, put the Devore with NAF 2a3 in. And just listen. You will need a few weeks to position speaker at right position, and get used to the new sound.

Experiment should be carried out with good quality LPs, original Deccas, EMIs, etc, which have massive soundstage on orchestral. and of course with some small chamber. Variety of LPs are required though.

Space is required from the side walls and front wall. So not recommended for those who keep big speakers in small rooms.

I agree that this would be a very interesting experiment. And you know I find the O96 inexplicably musically convincing -- for a small box speaker.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Now thats new to me mr ked .
Ron called me up back then and wanted to hear my loudspeakers .
It was not my initiative
He said i wanna come with a friend which happened to be you i said okay fine.
I have never asked you or ron to write a review if ron would have never written anything it would have been fine with me .
You never spoke to me whether you liked the speakers or not .
U did say you liked the bass however you can deny it now , also fine with me .
Look i dont really care whether you like my speakers or not its all good .
You can say all u want as long as its genuine
i have never asked you to write anything as that is up to you .
Ron wrote a nice review and even paid for dinner .

Thanks ron

 

[bonzo75]

Now thats new to me mr ked .
Ron called me up back then and wanted to hear my loudspeakers .
It was not my initiative
He said i wanna come with a friend which happened to be you i said okay fine.
I have never asked you or ron to write a review if ron would have never written anything it would have been fine with me .
You never spoke to me whether you liked the speakers or not .
U did say you liked the bass however you can deny it now , also fine with me .
Look i i dont really care whether you like my speakers or not its all good .
You can say all u want as long as its genuine
i have never asked you to write anything as that is up to you .
Ron wrote a nice review and even paid for dinner .

Thanks ron

Yes you did. Ron wrote about it, I didn’t. Like I said, ignore me, but you don’t give up when I haven’t replied to you for months. And no, I didn’t like anything about the speaker I was being polite.

 

[Gregadd]

You can get big sound from a small speaker. Indeed, I would shy away from huge speakers. I think just having a gargantuan speaker in the room is imposing and distracts from the illusion. Multiple drivers require space. Especially in a sealed enclosure.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes you did. Ron wrote about it, I didn’t. Like I said, ignore me, but you don’t give up when I haven’t replied to you for months. And no, I didn’t like anything about the speaker I was being polite.

Its an open forum as far as i know .
I can react to a post as i see fit.

Ps i might have send ron a mail via the forum prior , that if he wanted to hear / review my speakers he was welcome .
Can t remember , but its not that important , you heard the speakers and you didnt like them .
Big deal , its not the end of the world is it .
I make speakers that i like ( not for reviewers to like them or not)

 

[andromedaaudio]

To clarify if were talking 200 K + speakers , i m not sure if people realize how much work and cost go into a speaker housing like the Kharma Exquisite or a Rock port LYRA / Arrakis .

Its far too easy and shortsighted to simply say a big box with multiple drivers results in a complex X over and therefore cannot /doesn t sound coherent .
And that a small wooden box with 2 drivers in it and no X over sounds much better ,..... "sounds" more like complete lack of knowledge to me

 

[Gregadd]

To clarify if were talking 200 K + speakers , i m not sure if people realize how much work and cost go into a speaker housing like the Kharma Exquisite or a Rock port LYRA / Arrakis .

Its far too easy and shortsighted to simply say a big box with multiple drivers results in a complex X over and therefore cannot /doesn t sound coherent .
And that a small wooden box with 2 drivers in it and no X over sounds much better , sounds more like complete lack of knowledge to me

I am not sure anyone said that. I agree with you. In fact, I have heard big box multiple driver speakers deliver some delicate coherent music. Rare but it exists.

 

[Al M.]

I am not sure anyone said that. I agree with you. In fact, I have heard big box multiple driver speakers deliver some delicate coherent music. Rare but it exists.

Of course it exists. It also depends on the set-up. Speakers don't have to be small or simple to sound coherent.

 

[microstrip]

An interesting topic. Could you please elaborate why you preferred the "boutique" high-end speakers to those little Devialets?

I do not enjoy the type of sound of the Devialet speakers - I find them lacking in finesse and somewhat etched, lacking nuance and too technical. Impressive dynamics,, but not my type of sound and music. I prefer a lot my old Sonus Faber Amator.

So far the description of the Devialets here has been intriguing, but it sounds too good to be true. Usually, when it sounds like that, it actually *is* too good to be true.

Please see https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/if-you-dont-have-a-200k-speaker.36302/post-853382

 

[microstrip]

(...) Experiment should be carried out with good quality LPs, original Deccas, EMIs, etc, which have massive soundstage on orchestral. and of course with some small chamber. Variety of LPs are required though. (...)

Sorry, people should assemble their systems for the music they prefer, not for your favorites.

BTW, the local Wilson dealer also sells the Devore Orangutan O96 and demos them with Jadis 300SE - an interesting sound, but not my cup of tea.

 

[Al M.]

I do not enjoy the type of sound of the Devialet speakers - I find them lacking in finesse and somewhat etched, lacking nuance and too technical. Impressive dynamics,, but not my type of sound and music. I prefer a lot my old Sonus Faber Amator.

Thank you, this is helpful -- and not a bit surprising.

Please see https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/if-you-dont-have-a-200k-speaker.36302/post-853382

Indeed.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Sorry, people should assemble their systems for the music they prefer, not for your favorites.

BTW, the local Wilson dealer also sells the Devore Orangutan O96 and demos them with Jadis 300SE - an interesting sound, but not my cup of tea.

Same for me , audio note uk / devore more or less the same kind of design philosophy.
One trick pony LS .

In my previous post i stated no X over , i should have probably stated simple X over

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry, people should assemble their systems for the music they prefer, not for your favorites.

I don't expect many here to share my favorites.

The comment came on the back of Ron's suspension of disbelief using big speakers, as an experiment for people here who have already assembled systems with large speakers.

The experiment to go from having made the journey from small to a large speaker gradually, and then contrasting with a very small speaker again (the alternative to O96 is the smallest of Joachim Gerhard’s speakers. Not his next size up, which is still small) is:

1. Eliminate the size of the speaker in creating the height/scale of the soundstage
2. Eliminate the size of the woofer/cabinet that big speakers use to create bass

Just listen to height/soundstage and weight of the recording as far as possible. Go back to dream big system after that, of course.

 

[Scott Naylor]

I don't expect many here to share my favorites.

The comment came on the back of Ron's suspension of disbelief using big speakers, as an experiment for people here who have already assembled systems with large speakers.

The experiment to go from having made the journey from small to a large speaker gradually, and then contrasting with a very small speaker again (the alternative to O96 is the smallest of Joachim Garrard's speakers. Not his next size up, which is still small) is:

1. Eliminate the size of the speaker in creating the height/scale of the soundstage
2. Eliminate the size of the woofer/cabinet that big speakers use to create bass

Just listen to height/soundstage and weight of the recording as far as possible. Go back to dream big system after that, of course.

John DeVore?

 

[bonzo75]

John DeVore?

the O96 is Devore, the other speaker I was mentioning was Joachim Gerhard speakers which I heard at Anamighty sound a few years ago. Very small speakers in a large room, as we auditioned various analog equipment over 2 days, allowed the recordings and the equipment to show through very clearly without colouring them with their own fake artefacts, the kind that sound impressive on the first LP and by the fourth you are like oh no not that same bass and stage again. The recording stage and bass is much more real and impressive than the one imposed by large speakers over the recordings.

audionec evo 2 is also very good for this purpose and works with 20ish watt SETs. Hybrid like Logans but better, and the 400 hz above driver they have is quite transparent

 

[Gregadd]

Sorry, people should assemble their systems for the music they prefer, not for your favorites.[emphasis supplied]

[text omitted]

True. However, I would expect an all-out system to do it all.

 

[Ron Resnick]

the 400 hz above driver they have is quite transparent

I agree! I think Paul Paddock's unique driver is fantastic!

His improved version of that driver is in the MC Audiotech Forty-10.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I am sorry, but small puny speakers will never reproduce the sound of a full orchestra ! Sometimes they play far better than what you would expect from their size, but really good reproduction takes some size, a lot of air needs to be moved ! Is price directly in correlation with quality ? No ! But size often helps if it is well made. And size is often expensive !

Yes, small speakers cannot produce low frequency bass just purely on their physical limitations.

Bass performance from speakers that have big drivers also isn't always guaranteed as you need respectable physical cabinet depth as well.

This is one of the design flaws for thin depth electrostatic speakers where you get fantastic treble and upper mids but the low frequency bass is none existent i.e. you also need good sub woofers to go with them to have nice full spectrum frequency of sound.

Most speakers even mediocre performance one's can represent pretty good treble. However us poor humans are quite limited to high frequencies especially as you get older and yet speaker manufacturers love to publish very high frequencies, far higher us humans could ever dictate in hearing fully. Your pet dog or cat may turn there head and bark or meow though lol .

When I am in the market for a speaker, first thing I look at is the value of the lowest frequency it can produce. You will see there are not too many in the very low frequency levels and the ones that are, are quite expensive !