I can only conclude that you were extremely unlucky. There are many ways to steal one's identity.
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IMPORTANT WARNING ALERT! Audigon, my membership name has been hacked, check yours
- Thread starter DEV
- Start date
I can only conclude that you were extremely unlucky. There are many ways to steal one's identity.
Di you really mean that?
I was referring to all the Nigerian emails offers to give me $25 million dollars.
I like canuck audio mart. they now have a US oriented sales area. It's slowly picking up the pace.
Same level of security (none), zero interference with what you post for sale, zero fees.
Due diligence, as usual... is on the seller's and the buyer's plate. Same as audiogon.
The only reason that buyers and sellers use audiogon, is because buyers and sellers show up there. Otherwise, there's no discernible reason to go there, right? It's the only pick-up joint in town. It is not anywhere near being the nicest joint.
The 'canuck audio mart' is probably the only real extant challenge to the current hegemony of audiogon.
You want audiogon to fix itself, or be challenged directly..into doing so.. then, from my looking around.... the CanuckAudioMart is the only place that it can be created via. The only legitimate challenge.
Except that you'll have to deal with the odd Canadian audio fanatic. And they tend to throw nickels around like they are manhole covers.
(somebody I know, probably, is going to get wind of that comment and smack me for it)
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Another scam, this time dCS gear:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd...tti-four-box-stack-2013-01-15-digital-eu-230v
1. price waaaaay too good to be true
2. email address in the ad text
3. seller says the item is located in Europe, but his extensive feedback doesn't say a word about his internetional deals - which in my experience is the norm on AgoN
4. he introduced himself as Paul (in an email he wrote to me), but in his feedback on AgoN ppl keep calling him Ben
5. I made him an offer to pick the gear in person and pay cash, but his explanation was very lame:
"This is not possible because the system is already at DHL. The seller prepared it for someone else but he changed his mind and is still for sale."
LOL
Stay away !
Screenshot link
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd...tti-four-box-stack-2013-01-15-digital-eu-230v
1. price waaaaay too good to be true
2. email address in the ad text
3. seller says the item is located in Europe, but his extensive feedback doesn't say a word about his internetional deals - which in my experience is the norm on AgoN
4. he introduced himself as Paul (in an email he wrote to me), but in his feedback on AgoN ppl keep calling him Ben
5. I made him an offer to pick the gear in person and pay cash, but his explanation was very lame:
"This is not possible because the system is already at DHL. The seller prepared it for someone else but he changed his mind and is still for sale."
LOL
Stay away !
Screenshot link
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I went into a conversation with this scammer, and made him relist the ad from another hijacked account (I notified AudiogoN stuff already).
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd...tti-four-box-stack-2013-01-18-digital-germany
It seems that this guy has a pool of hijacked accounts !
Screenshot 2 link
The bank wire transfer details he send me, were:
Paul Cromberg
Barcastraße 23,
22087 Hamburg,
Germany
Payment Details
Account Holder: Paul Cromberg
Bank Name: Postbank
Bank Address: 22283 Hamburg, Germany
Account No: 623796206
IBAN: DE19 2001 0020 0623 7962 06
BIC/SWIFT: PBNKDEFF
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd...tti-four-box-stack-2013-01-18-digital-germany
It seems that this guy has a pool of hijacked accounts !
Screenshot 2 link
The bank wire transfer details he send me, were:
Paul Cromberg
Barcastraße 23,
22087 Hamburg,
Germany
Payment Details
Account Holder: Paul Cromberg
Bank Name: Postbank
Bank Address: 22283 Hamburg, Germany
Account No: 623796206
IBAN: DE19 2001 0020 0623 7962 06
BIC/SWIFT: PBNKDEFF
Here is my conversation with the seller. Let's see, how many times I will be able to make him relist the item
Me: Is dCS still available ? - I went into a conversation to see if that is a legitimate sale
Scammer: Yes, the dCS system is still for sale. Where are you from?
Me: I'm from Poland. And you ?
Scammer: I am in Germany.
Me: Are you the original owner ?
Scammer: I intermediate the transaction for a seller. The system has 1 owner. He reduced the price for a fast sale.
Me: How old are the units ?
Scammer: The units are 1 year and 5 months old. The condition is excellent, no scratches, dents or problems.
Me: I'm interested. Since I live nearby, I would like to pick them up in person and pay cash. - offering a personal pickup is one of the way to discover the scam, although doesn't work 100% of the time; I have once engaged into a conversation with another scammer (selling Wilson Sasha, also from Germany), who first agreed on personal pickup, but when I emailed him a day before the agreed date asking for his address, he never replied again; IMO thay may say YES at first, hoping that you will feel more comfortable having that option, but eventually, you will choose a bank wire transfer anyway)
Scammer: This is not possible because the system is already at DHL. The seller prepared it for someone else but he changed his mind and is still for sale. Let me know because i am in conversation with other Polish customer. - a classic story; remember to ask for additional images, ESPECIALLY images that you would not be able to find on the internet - the gear listed with a fork on top, a shoe, an apple etc
Me: OK, no problem. Pls send me know your bank wire transfer details then.
Scammer: Fir of all i need your contact details: full name, delivery address and your phone number. Also a copy of your ID or driver licenses. I need them in order to make a sale invoice. - this is an interesting point. in my experience, scammers always offer you a sales contract. Personally, I have never/ever signed a sales contract selling or buying on AudiogoN on any of my 100+ deals ! IMO, they want to make an impression that the sale is legit.
Me: Pls invoice to:
Jan Kowalski
ul. Marsza?kowska 34
00-900 Warsaw
Poland
(that was a fake address, I crossed my fingers he would not check that in google street view)
Scammer: OK. So we have a deal. Please email me a copy of your id. I will issue the invoice today. - again - why the copy of an ID ? IMO, just like the sales contract, he wants to make an impression of a legit sale
Me: Why the copy of ID ? I have bought many items on AudiogoN, and never had to send my ID. It makes me feel very insecure.
Scammer: I will send the sale contract tomorrow morning. I hope that you are really interested because i already end the advert and closed the conversation with all other potential buyers. Please try to send the payment tomorrow because i want to finish the deal before the end of next week. - the scammer has already smelled the money; it makes him forget about my ID; he also noticed that the ad had been taken down by AudiogoN, so decides to tell a story, before I ask, how he closed it down
Me: OK
Scammer: I attached the sale invoice. Please read, sign and send it back attaching also the bank receipt.
Sale contract he sent me.
Me: Thank you. I would like to ask why the ad has been deleted from AudiogoN ? - I ask anyway, since I wanted to hear what he will come with as an explanation.
Scammer: I deleted it when you agreed to purchase the system (I informed you about this yesterday). I was in conversation with some other customers and i told them that the advert is sold. Also if you like i can re-list it (also if i sold it through the audiogon i have to pay 1% fees). In few minutes i will be in a meeting and i can not reply to you in the next 2 hours. Please try to make the payment today because tomorrow i want to make all the delivery preparations to your address.
Me: I would feel more comfortable if you relisted the item. All my previous buys on AudiogoN were through their system. - I asked him to relist the item to see if he has access to more hijacked account than one
Scammer: I will send the feedback after the transaction is done (we will leave feedback them). Maybe we can do it on a lower amount. I through that we have a deal when you asked for the invoice. Also why did you not made an offer yesterday? Now a have a meeting for 2-3 hours and i can not reply. Please send the payment if you really want to buy it. With no offense but i do not want to waste the time and money for the audiogon fees (i already paid 40$ when i list it and now is ended) - he obviously wants to make me feel guilty, for asking him to spent extra $$$ on relisting the item, so gives this inflated figure of $40
Me: Listing is only $4.
Scammer: It was a feature listing. Have you sent the payment?
Me: No, I put the money on hold. I will only buy through AudiogoN. If you are a serious seller (which I belive you are) it should be no problem for you to relist the item.
Scammer: I have some meetings in this afternoon. I will re-list it tomorrow morning and we will make the transaction through audiogon. Is this ok for you?
Me: OK, great ! Pls let me know when the ad is up and running.
Scammer (09:09 AM): I just relist it for you. dCS Scarlatti Four box stack | CD/SACD Players | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community Please send offer and i will accept it right now.
Scammer (10:17AM): Have you received my reply? Are you still interested? - notice that he sends me 2 emails, within one hour; he probably knows that his new ad will be taken down shortly, so needs to act quick
Me: I'm sorry. I tried to buy it using my mobile phone, but somehow AudiogoN sale system it doesn't work on my mobile. My phone is probably too old. I will do it after I return home in the evening.
Sent from my Nokia E7 - due to time zone differencies, AudiogoN stuff probably is still not at work; I need to gain more time till AgoN takes down the new add, so I made up this story with a phone; after they do, I will try to ask him to relist it for the THIRD time The more times he relists it, the less hijacked accounts he will have left
If you have any ideas how to manage this conversation, pls share :thumbsup:
Me: Is dCS still available ? - I went into a conversation to see if that is a legitimate sale
Scammer: Yes, the dCS system is still for sale. Where are you from?
Me: I'm from Poland. And you ?
Scammer: I am in Germany.
Me: Are you the original owner ?
Scammer: I intermediate the transaction for a seller. The system has 1 owner. He reduced the price for a fast sale.
Me: How old are the units ?
Scammer: The units are 1 year and 5 months old. The condition is excellent, no scratches, dents or problems.
Me: I'm interested. Since I live nearby, I would like to pick them up in person and pay cash. - offering a personal pickup is one of the way to discover the scam, although doesn't work 100% of the time; I have once engaged into a conversation with another scammer (selling Wilson Sasha, also from Germany), who first agreed on personal pickup, but when I emailed him a day before the agreed date asking for his address, he never replied again; IMO thay may say YES at first, hoping that you will feel more comfortable having that option, but eventually, you will choose a bank wire transfer anyway)
Scammer: This is not possible because the system is already at DHL. The seller prepared it for someone else but he changed his mind and is still for sale. Let me know because i am in conversation with other Polish customer. - a classic story; remember to ask for additional images, ESPECIALLY images that you would not be able to find on the internet - the gear listed with a fork on top, a shoe, an apple etc
Me: OK, no problem. Pls send me know your bank wire transfer details then.
Scammer: Fir of all i need your contact details: full name, delivery address and your phone number. Also a copy of your ID or driver licenses. I need them in order to make a sale invoice. - this is an interesting point. in my experience, scammers always offer you a sales contract. Personally, I have never/ever signed a sales contract selling or buying on AudiogoN on any of my 100+ deals ! IMO, they want to make an impression that the sale is legit.
Me: Pls invoice to:
Jan Kowalski
ul. Marsza?kowska 34
00-900 Warsaw
Poland
(that was a fake address, I crossed my fingers he would not check that in google street view)
Scammer: OK. So we have a deal. Please email me a copy of your id. I will issue the invoice today. - again - why the copy of an ID ? IMO, just like the sales contract, he wants to make an impression of a legit sale
Me: Why the copy of ID ? I have bought many items on AudiogoN, and never had to send my ID. It makes me feel very insecure.
Scammer: I will send the sale contract tomorrow morning. I hope that you are really interested because i already end the advert and closed the conversation with all other potential buyers. Please try to send the payment tomorrow because i want to finish the deal before the end of next week. - the scammer has already smelled the money; it makes him forget about my ID; he also noticed that the ad had been taken down by AudiogoN, so decides to tell a story, before I ask, how he closed it down
Me: OK
Scammer: I attached the sale invoice. Please read, sign and send it back attaching also the bank receipt.
Sale contract he sent me.
Me: Thank you. I would like to ask why the ad has been deleted from AudiogoN ? - I ask anyway, since I wanted to hear what he will come with as an explanation.
Scammer: I deleted it when you agreed to purchase the system (I informed you about this yesterday). I was in conversation with some other customers and i told them that the advert is sold. Also if you like i can re-list it (also if i sold it through the audiogon i have to pay 1% fees). In few minutes i will be in a meeting and i can not reply to you in the next 2 hours. Please try to make the payment today because tomorrow i want to make all the delivery preparations to your address.
Me: I would feel more comfortable if you relisted the item. All my previous buys on AudiogoN were through their system. - I asked him to relist the item to see if he has access to more hijacked account than one
Scammer: I will send the feedback after the transaction is done (we will leave feedback them). Maybe we can do it on a lower amount. I through that we have a deal when you asked for the invoice. Also why did you not made an offer yesterday? Now a have a meeting for 2-3 hours and i can not reply. Please send the payment if you really want to buy it. With no offense but i do not want to waste the time and money for the audiogon fees (i already paid 40$ when i list it and now is ended) - he obviously wants to make me feel guilty, for asking him to spent extra $$$ on relisting the item, so gives this inflated figure of $40
Me: Listing is only $4.
Scammer: It was a feature listing. Have you sent the payment?
Me: No, I put the money on hold. I will only buy through AudiogoN. If you are a serious seller (which I belive you are) it should be no problem for you to relist the item.
Scammer: I have some meetings in this afternoon. I will re-list it tomorrow morning and we will make the transaction through audiogon. Is this ok for you?
Me: OK, great ! Pls let me know when the ad is up and running.
Scammer (09:09 AM): I just relist it for you. dCS Scarlatti Four box stack | CD/SACD Players | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community Please send offer and i will accept it right now.
Scammer (10:17AM): Have you received my reply? Are you still interested? - notice that he sends me 2 emails, within one hour; he probably knows that his new ad will be taken down shortly, so needs to act quick
Me: I'm sorry. I tried to buy it using my mobile phone, but somehow AudiogoN sale system it doesn't work on my mobile. My phone is probably too old. I will do it after I return home in the evening.
Sent from my Nokia E7 - due to time zone differencies, AudiogoN stuff probably is still not at work; I need to gain more time till AgoN takes down the new add, so I made up this story with a phone; after they do, I will try to ask him to relist it for the THIRD time
The more times he relists it, the less hijacked accounts he will have leftIf you have any ideas how to manage this conversation, pls share :thumbsup:
There are many legit (I would say most of them !) ads from european mebers. There are many ways to verify if it is a legit sale or not.
#1 for me is always a phone call. Within minutes you will know, if you are dealing with audiophile or a scammer. Scammers are no audiophiles. They have zero knowledge of the equipment they are listing. They just found out this niche and try to exploit it.
#2 is to check the sellers identity through a distributior. Those are all small markets. Out of 47 european countries, 27 has less population than New York city alone ! Distributors and dealers tend to know their customers very well, so that should not be a problem. You can even use a national distributor / dealer as a kind of escrow service.
#3 Check the forums. Very often ppl use the same user name on AudiogoN and forums. If that user posts a lot, you can see that the item he is selling is in his virtual system (and was discussed there) - you can be 99% certain that it is a legit seller. Combine that with #1, and that will give you the missing 1%.
#1 for me is always a phone call. Within minutes you will know, if you are dealing with audiophile or a scammer. Scammers are no audiophiles. They have zero knowledge of the equipment they are listing. They just found out this niche and try to exploit it.
#2 is to check the sellers identity through a distributior. Those are all small markets. Out of 47 european countries, 27 has less population than New York city alone ! Distributors and dealers tend to know their customers very well, so that should not be a problem. You can even use a national distributor / dealer as a kind of escrow service.
#3 Check the forums. Very often ppl use the same user name on AudiogoN and forums. If that user posts a lot, you can see that the item he is selling is in his virtual system (and was discussed there) - you can be 99% certain that it is a legit seller. Combine that with #1, and that will give you the missing 1%.
Besides - now we have one scam artist in Germany, tomorrow we may see one somwhere in Asia, and next week in the US (next Joe Boey aka Audio Pimp). You never know, you have to be careful on EVERY single deal you make. With some basic common sense, you should be perfectly fine though.
The problem with PayPal is that it gets very costly at high dolar sales. Imageine you are buying $20k speaker - that is $800 in PayPal fees alone. What is more, PayPal is not safe for the SELLERS, so many of them do not accept PayPal on high dolar sales.
Escrow is the only safe way for high $$ transactions if you are not 100% comfortable. But what escrow company