In praise of idlers
- Thread starter jespera
- Start date
Thank you Peter, its a slightly renovated Russ Collinson plinth, 3012R arm and a lovey re tipped SUPEX and enjoying very much!
Regards Stephen
Excellent stuff.
These days, Russ Collinson has so many followers on youtube that I think it's hard to get him to take orders.
My garrard plinth is one of his layered solid cherry wood ones. Shindo copy.
I believe the cabinets for my grf corner horns may be done be him too.
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When I did my Garrard this time last year Russ Collinson was no longer doing plinths. I got mine done by Carl Ellis in Manchester and the lacquer finish done in London.
A most excellent Shindo copy too I understand but I also think he is no longer making plinths but using his skills elsewhere. As for those corner horns with hand built Abbas crossovers to boot, well that would be interesting if Collinson made the Horn Cabinets as I understand he builds furniture now so very possible. I may be wrong.
I managed to find my plinth second hand. An early and well used square cornered model. Now with a little more polish and shellac and cut outs made for an SME and an additional arm-board for later additions.
I think the problem is that you can get very good plinths online from Europe and also made in the UK very cheaply. Of course lots of people DIY, which is half the fun.
Carl Ellis was recommended to me by Ray Clark of CTC because Carl’s templates are specifically measured for CTC’s machined aluminium Garrard 301 base, which are slightly different to the originals, plus the screws come from underneath rather than through the base plate into the plinth.
Carl only wanted £500 to make the plinth and veneer it (I supplied the veneer). I got the intensive 16 coats of polished lacquer and 6 shelves veneered and satin coated done in London for £850. So the plinth was perhaps £1,000, and would have been only £600 if I’d asked Carl just to slap on some satin or gloss. It just not economic and there is a lot of time spent discussing with the client and sorting out veneers.
I bought some kitchen bar stools from a bespoke furniture company in Yorkshire where Russ Collinson lives. There is far more money in that line of business and I suspect he is now doing that sort of work. https://www.treske.co.uk/
I got to know Simon Gavin quite well. He made me some bespoke furniture, my record cabinet and a hifi cabinet that my wife now uses in her clinic. He created the excellent Blok product. He got bored doing it, sold it to Monitor Audio and now has much more fun making kitchens and the like.
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There's a lot of factors that go into selecting 301 or 401 plinth materials and design. Balancing Mass / intrinsic damping / stiffness are the keys.
Some suggest mass is the solution without mentioning mass stores and releases energy slowly muddying the sound. (If mass were the answer lead would be the solution - it sounds exactly as you would expect ) Others might say damping is the solution but if this were the case a cast sorbothane or silicone composite would be the answer (Sounds lifeless, sluggish and strangled) Stiffness alone (carbon fibre for example) sounds too thin / unfocused.
Striking the right balance of materials and getting the design right is kind of a long but informative R&D road. Turntables with motors smaller than a lawnmower have less difficulty in the above reguard.
Some suggest mass is the solution without mentioning mass stores and releases energy slowly muddying the sound. (If mass were the answer lead would be the solution - it sounds exactly as you would expect ) Others might say damping is the solution but if this were the case a cast sorbothane or silicone composite would be the answer (Sounds lifeless, sluggish and strangled) Stiffness alone (carbon fibre for example) sounds too thin / unfocused.
Striking the right balance of materials and getting the design right is kind of a long but informative R&D road. Turntables with motors smaller than a lawnmower have less difficulty in the above reguard.
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I purchased a restored Thorens TD 124 MK1 from STS turntables in 2015 for 2459.00. I sent it to Schopper for a tune up assessment (5200.00 to include full chassis/mortor restoration and replacement of both the top platter and main platter; 4525.00 if I elect not to replace the main platter). My main platter is ok (but it is magnetic…& likely contributed to the damage when I tried to remove the top platter for general maintenance). The price also includes a replacement walnut plinth (not required but the one I have isn’t as aesthetically appealing). I’m leaning towards the Schopper refurbishment. I’m thinking this will be my final modding of the TT as I’m nearing 60 years old. Is it routine to dump large sums of money into these idler tables every decade or so to keep it running optimally?
Replacement of the mainplatter by a non magnetic one is recommended otherwise you limit yourself in the cartridge choices, also the sonic improvement is well worth.
What I not well understood why sending a revised turntable again for a next revision?
As aforementioned…possibly not articulated clearly… there’s always been some noise with the restored TT..& the top platter was recently warped. I wanted a full assessment after a decade of use. I was going to send it back to STS in Tennessee…but I didn’t get a reply back when I contacted Greg by email. I saw Juerg @ Schopper touted as the one to bring the TT to the next level among pro restorers. So I thought ‘what the hell…why not?’…worst case I could do nothing and have the table returned untouched…if I found it to be cost prohibitive.
My question…albeit subjective and broad in scope…is…have ‘others’ out there…who’ve done the Schopper upgrades…found it to be ‘notably worthy’…primarily in reducing the operational noise heard from the TD 124 MK One version? If so…how so? Schopper states ‘after our restoration, all problems also with noise level will be gone’
Footnote: I’ve never experienced any issues with MM or MC cartridges on the table with the magnetic platter in place. I use a Dynavector model 20x2 Low.
My question…albeit subjective and broad in scope…is…have ‘others’ out there…who’ve done the Schopper upgrades…found it to be ‘notably worthy’…primarily in reducing the operational noise heard from the TD 124 MK One version? If so…how so? Schopper states ‘after our restoration, all problems also with noise level will be gone’
Footnote: I’ve never experienced any issues with MM or MC cartridges on the table with the magnetic platter in place. I use a Dynavector model 20x2 Low.
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If you want to increase the performance, you have to remove the Quickstart aluminum platter and put an 8mm thick graphite or Tizo turntable mat on the original green cast platter. No more magnetic influence and the original platter sounds, as promised, better than all replica platters.
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important for smooth running, overhaul the motor, adjust, check the bearing ball for wear.
A new belt and use good oil for platter bearing (klübber sinter oil), check the bearing ball, change the nylon disk. check the step gear bearing ball + nylon disk. check the idler wheel, if the rubber is still soft, otherwise audiosilente offers an excellently manufactured idler wheel. after that it should run very smoothly
Thanks to all…valuable feedback. I’ve decided to get the Schopper restoration based on the feedback from Juerg.
Typically comment of a person who never had the chance to listen to a good idler.
It's a stupid desinformation and a never dying lie that all idler per se would be effected to rumble.
Most people believing in this but never had the chance to listend to the sheer force a powerful, well maintained and build idler can provide.
My Lenco L75 / PTP6 runs even smoother as the Thorens TD125 MkII I owned before.
He beats most of the todays direct drive by its silence and strong driving power and will match todays best DD.
But OK I see, you do not know it better. Pity you do not trust your ears. You would find out very quickly how wrong you are.
You should listen properly before spreading rumors and if you still not believe you should better show up at my place and listen.
It's a stupid desinformation and a never dying lie that all idler per se would be effected to rumble.
Most people believing in this but never had the chance to listend to the sheer force a powerful, well maintained and build idler can provide.
My Lenco L75 / PTP6 runs even smoother as the Thorens TD125 MkII I owned before.
He beats most of the todays direct drive by its silence and strong driving power and will match todays best DD.
But OK I see, you do not know it better. Pity you do not trust your ears. You would find out very quickly how wrong you are.
You should listen properly before spreading rumors and if you still not believe you should better show up at my place and listen.
Ignorance + conviction = lethal combination.
There is a reason (and I will not name names) that many of the world's leading cartridge and tonearm manufacturers, that can get any table heavily discounted all have idlers, including commonwealths and garrads.
When I run across your posts in various threads I don’t find much you do like…
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