Innuos Pulsar ????

[ssfas]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about Innuos products.

Until the current range, for 10 years or more they were really in the server business. They were basically intended to host a music library, could act as a Roon core and Roon transport, and could also host a few other things like iPeng. They also had a ripper, which they told me they only left in because it was cheaper to do so than re-engineer the case and some of the electronics given the CD drive unit is so cheap. Except for the Mini, the input was limited to ethernet and the output to ethernet and USB.

So about two years ago they brought out their own Sense transport software, which was a runaway, popular success. It has also got a lot better very quickly. So much so that lots of people, me included, prefer to stick to their products because the transport software is such a pleasure to use.

Like Linn before them, who have been very successful in streaming since they launched the DS range in 2009 (which I bought in 2010), they really want you to do things their way. They give you more choice with Pulse, But Pulsar is ethernet in and USB or upnp out. The data storage options are a network attached drive in standard mode, or as an endpoint to one of their servers, Roon or HQplayer.

So if you want to use any other software or wireless, it’s probably not the product for you.

 

[tedwoods]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about Innuos products.

Until the current range, for 10 years or more they were really in the server business. They were basically intended to host a music library, could act as a Roon core and Roon transport, and could also host a few other things like iPeng. They also had a ripper, which they told me they only left in because it was cheaper to do so than re-engineer the case and some of the electronics given the CD drive unit is so cheap. Except for the Mini, the input was limited to ethernet and the output to ethernet and USB.

So about two years ago they brought out their own Sense transport software, which was a runaway, popular success. It has also got a lot better very quickly. So much so that lots of people, me included, prefer to stick to their products because the transport software is such a pleasure to use.

Like Linn before them, who have been very successful in streaming since they launched the DS range in 2009 (which I bought in 2010), they really want you to do things their way. They give you more choice with Pulse, But Pulsar is ethernet in and USB or upnp out. The data storage options are a network attached drive in standard mode, or as an endpoint to one of their servers, Roon or HQplayer.

So if you want to use any other software or wireless, it’s probably not the product for you.

I like the Sense app and use it exclusively.
But the ability to stream from UPnP/DLNA "sources" might have other benefits too.
What I find most intriguing is the ability to stream from cloud storage (Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive) directly to your machine.
You can do that through BubbleUPnP, for example.
In my case, that would effectively negate the need for a NAS or server, since I'd have all the files I now have in a NAS, in the cloud and just stream from there.
If I downsized to the files that are absolutely essential to me (not available through Tidal/Quobuz at all), I figure I'd have just under 250GBs worth of music stored in the cloud, so it'd be economical too.
Now, if my cloud library could be integrated with my Tidal/Quobuz one through the Sense app (which would be treating it as an online NAS of sorts), well, that would be just marvelous...

 

[ssfas]

I like the Sense app and use it exclusively.
But the ability to stream from UPnP/DLNA "sources" might have other benefits too.
What I find most intriguing is the ability to stream from cloud storage (Google Drive, Dropbox, OneDrive) directly to your machine.
You can do that through BubbleUPnP, for example.
In my case, that would effectively negate the need for a NAS or server, since I'd have all the files I now have in a NAS, in the cloud and just stream from there.
If I downsized to the files that are absolutely essential to me (not available through Tidal/Quobuz at all), I figure I'd have just under 250GBs worth of music stored in the cloud, so it'd be economical too.
Now, if my cloud library could be integrated with my Tidal/Quobuz one through the Sense app (which would be treating it as an online NAS of sorts), well, that would be just marvelous...

Innuos did not implement USB drive attachment because they consider it a poor option (just like Linn, again). I'm informed by Innuos it will follow soon in a software release (it may be in 2.5, I've not checked) in case people want to be able to listen to files on a USB stick etc. If it's so few files, you could just do that and hope the Innuos Police don't pay a visit.

 

[kennyb123]

But the ability to stream from UPnP/DLNA "sources" might have other benefits too.

It’s nice to have options. On Antipodes we have multiple choices including MPD/MinimSever than can operate in UPnP/DLNA mode. I tried it for a bit with JPlay as a controller but ultimately I found it smeared relative to Squeeze. Other listeners might not agree as we each hear differently.

The one thing I absolutely hated about running in this mode was the need to manually rescan after adding music. And not just once either. I had to first have MinimServer scan. Then I had to have JPlay scan both on my iPhone and then separately on my iPad as I will control playback with either.

Bringing this back to Innous, how does Sense identify newly added music? Is a manual re-scan required?

 

[ssfas]

It’s nice to have options. On Antipodes we have multiple choices including MPD/MinimSever than can operate in UPnP/DLNA mode. I tried it for a bit with JPlay as a controller but ultimately I found it smeared relative to Squeeze. Other listeners might not agree as we each hear differently.

The one thing I absolutely hated about running in this mode was the need to manually rescan after adding music. And not just once either. I had to first have MinimServer scan. Then I had to have JPlay scan both on my iPhone and then separately on my iPad as I will control playback with either.

Bringing this back to Innous, how does Sense identify newly added music? Is a manual re-scan required?

If you use in Endpoint mode with an Innuos server, the server will automatically update the library.

Using a third party network drive, the Innuos cannot detect files added to it. You will have to spend 10 seconds opening the app and pressing the Rescan button.



If you click on a Qobuz file as a favourite, it will automatically add it to your library, although you have integration options.

 

[Tuckers]

Supra Cables Excalibur USB 2.0 per metre at MCRU www.mcru.co.uk​

The Excalibur is actually a very good USB cable. It is as good as some of my cables that cost upwards of $1,000. I have modded it with a number of RFI/EMI tricks, and it is even better, close to the best I have heard.

 

[Di-fi]

The Excalibur is actually a very good USB cable. It is as good as some of my cables that cost upwards of $1,000. I have modded it with a number of RFI/EMI tricks, and it is even better, close to the best I have heard.

Interesting, Excalibur will beat cables as good as USB cables at least 5-6 times its price and specifically when used between Innuos Pulsar streamer and Holo Audio May KTE DAC?

If you don’t mind me asking, to get a ballpark, would that number of RFI/EMI tricks elevate SQ like 5% or more when used with a Pulsar?

And , would the RFI/EMI tricks work the same way on your $1000+ USB cables when attached to Pulsar?

 

[ssfas]

It’s nice to have options. On Antipodes we have multiple choices including MPD/MinimSever than can operate in UPnP/DLNA mode. I tried it for a bit with JPlay as a controller but ultimately I found it smeared relative to Squeeze. Other listeners might not agree as we each hear differently.

The one thing I absolutely hated about running in this mode was the need to manually rescan after adding music. And not just once either. I had to first have MinimServer scan. Then I had to have JPlay scan both on my iPhone and then separately on my iPad as I will control playback with either.

Bringing this back to Innous, how does Sense identify newly added music? Is a manual re-scan required?

I just dropped a 2gb download on to my network drive. Clicked on the Rescan button and it took about 3 or 4 minutes to run a scan and add to the library. It collects metadata at the same time. It took slightly longer to download the file.

It runs the scan in the background and tells you when it's done.

 

[Tuckers]

Interesting, Excalibur will beat cables as good as USB cables at least 5-6 times its price and specifically when used between Innuos Pulsar streamer and Holo Audio May KTE DAC?

So, when I say competitive with cables up to $1000, I mean there are cables in that price range that are not that good, but there are other cables that can better it in that range. I. Not saying it is the best. In terms of my own mods to the cable, I'm not willing to share. I think I am probably myopic in regards to the distortions I hear in digital playback and would say my enhancements add 10-15% improvements whereas others might say 3-5%? Lol. But it's those small incremental improvements that make all the difference long term.

 

[Di-fi]

So, when I say competitive with cables up to $1000, I mean there are cables in that price range that are not that good, but there are other cables that can better it in that range. I. Not saying it is the best. In terms of my own mods to the cable, I'm not willing to share. I think I am probably myopic in regards to the distortions I hear in digital playback and would say my enhancements add 10-15% improvements whereas others might say 3-5%? Lol. But it's those small incremental improvements that make all the difference long term.

Thanks, good for you!

 

[ssfas]

Thanks, good for you!

Prior to buying the Supra Excalibur cable, I was using a Chord-C USB cable, which I've had for over 10 years. It came as a special offer in a blister pack with a copy of a hifi magazine in a local newsagent. The cable and magazine cost £4.99. (That's £4.99, not £499).

The Chord-C USB now costs £50, which tells me Chord realised it was too cheap given the audiophile price-perception with cables.

Belden/BJC/Iconoclast is my reference because they are made the best way (high volume, tight tolerance, based on science not witchcraft) and their USB cable is £2.50 (less than $4) for a 3m cable. They make other cables for thousands of dollars, but can't see a way to improve on under $4 for USB.

I can't say I've heard an improvement with the Excalibur, but if I was going to try a USB cable I thought I should have some basis for doing so - in this case splitting power and signal. I will put the Chord-C back in at some point to see if I can hear degradation.

Because USB sends digital packet data, and the design of error correction basically eliminates data loss, I can only think the negative could be unwanted power noise over the cable. This is why Innuos do not implement USB data library connectivity (yet). Most digital transports and DACs now have USB galvanic isolation or low noise power supplies to USB, which should eliminate the potential problem.

 

[Di-fi]

Prior to buying the Supra Excalibur cable, I was using a Chord-C USB cable, which I've had for over 10 years. It came as a special offer in a blister pack with a copy of a hifi magazine in a local newsagent. The cable and magazine cost £4.99. (That's £4.99, not £499).

The Chord-C USB now costs £50, which tells me Chord realised it was too cheap given the audiophile price-perception with cables.

Belden/BJC/Iconoclast is my reference because they are made the best way (high volume, tight tolerance, based on science not witchcraft) and their USB cable is £2.50 (less than $4) for a 3m cable. They make other cables for thousands of dollars, but can't see a way to improve on under $4 for USB.

I can't say I've heard an improvement with the Excalibur, but if I was going to try a USB cable I thought I should have some basis for doing so - in this case splitting power and signal. I will put the Chord-C back in at some point to see if I can hear degradation.

Because USB sends digital packet data, and the design of error correction basically eliminates data loss, I can only think the negative could be unwanted power noise over the cable. This is why Innuos do not implement USB data library connectivity (yet). Most digital transports and DACs now have USB galvanic isolation or low noise power supplies to USB, which should eliminate the potential problem.

I suppose we agree to disagree on USB cables and their influence on SQ. Hence my curiosity about this Supra Excalibur cable.

Until now you did not specify your USB connection, for understandable reasons, but if I only had a setup like yours, between your Pulsar in Endpoint mode into Holo May Level 2 I would audition any better (30 day trial) USB cable, in the $400-800 league of Sablon or Mad Scientist . Specifically because INNUOS paid a lot of attention to the USB output with the excellent integrated USB reclocker (almost as good as the PHOENIXusb).

I would be very surprised if you can not hear and your system would not benefit (tremendously). YMMV of course and I totally understand if you are not willing to try and focus on other improvements instead.

 

[ssfas]

I suppose we agree to disagree on USB cables and their influence on SQ. Hence my curiosity about this Supra Excalibur cable.

Until now you did not specify your USB connection, for understandable reasons, but if I only had a setup like yours, between your Pulsar in Endpoint mode into Holo May Level 2 I would audition any better (30 day trial) USB cable, in the $400-800 league of Sablon or Mad Scientist . Specifically because INNUOS paid a lot of attention to the USB output with the excellent integrated USB reclocker (almost as good as the PHOENIXusb).

I would be very surprised if you can not hear and your system would not benefit (tremendously). YMMV of course and I totally understand if you are not willing to try and focus on other improvements instead.

I'd never heard of Sablon Audio until I signed on to this site.

I'm using the Pulsar in Standalone mode, with my smallish 1TB music library on $200 network drive, and it works and sounds fine. I've agreed a sale on my Zen Mk3, It's just another box that takes up a cupboard in my dining room and it's just more stuff I don't need.

The Holo May/Pulsar combination was on the basis that I prefer to use the Sense software to Roon (I really like Sense) and they are both optimised for USB. I really like the design philosophy of Innuos. Their sales manager, Richard Colman and now a new guy, are straightforward. They are a totally non-nonsense company. Any foo b-s is for me a complete turn-off and an immediate cause to completely ignore a brand forever more, and sometimes the dealers who sell them.

Nordost started the cable pricing thing decades ago. You now have QSA-L getting Belden to put a Telegartner connector on a stock ethernet cable, probably costs $30, stick it on a cable burner for a few minutes (according to YouTube, QSA-L won't disclose anything) and slap a $4,000 price tag on it. It doesn't make it a $4,000 cable, it makes it a $30 cable with a $4,000 price tag. Here in the UK QSA sell a $0.30 fuse with a $10,000 price tag. (I have it in writing from the distributor that it is a physically unmodified Bussmann fuse.) I'm not picking on QSA-L, it fairly widespread, Belden sell to lots of trade people, as do other manufacturers.

I've looked at Sablon. It's only 30 minutes away from me. My observations on the USB:

1) It's a UK company aimed at the USA market. No £ prices. Probably due to there being little love in the general market for high-priced digital cables in the UK.
2) Says "world class musical performance at a real world price". Depends if you think $1,250 is a real world price for a USB cable. $5 is a real world price for a USB cable.
3) "Exquisite sounding hand-wound pure copper conductors". The conductors are sending digital packets. This is a classic analog/digital false equivalence. They have no sound because they are not sending a frequency-dependent signal.
I do not want a hand wound USB cable. USB has a technical specification, for example here: http://sdpha2.ucsd.edu/Lab_Equip_Manuals/usb_20.pdf
I want it made by a machine that can do so to a far more accurate tolerance than anyone doing it by hand.
3) Dual leg construction to distance noise from data wires - YES! See Supra for $130
4) "Superbly open and 'analogue' sound" - this is nonsense.

Their ethernet says:
1) Large gauge solid core copper conductors with extensive shielding and class leading measurements
2) Carefully terminated to minimise cross talk between channels using Telegaertner Cat 8 plugs

Everyone should know that CAT cable specifications are internationally standardised and primarily relate to speed and crosstalk. CAT5e is more than enough for audio as it has plenty of speed and bandwidth, but CAT6a seems to be best for audio as it has isolated pairs and thicker conductors than CAT6. Either the cable meets the specification or it does not. What is amazing is that Sablon do not state what the cable category is.

As for Telegaertner plugs, look at the Telegaertner website. Their only real purpose is to enable quick hand-made connections to faulty cables in data centres. Possibly also some benefit in PoE use, which I doubt anyone uses. They do not perform better than normal connectors and they may perform worse. It makes little difference because CAT standards are measured connector to connector, so as long as they pass the specification test, it doesn't matter.

Their size makes them problematic, they don't go don't my ethernet conduits and you can't plug one into a Ubiquiti access point. My house if fully Ubiquiti with close to 100 wireless devices attached.

I would be more than happy if the Sablon guy were to be passing my way to sit and listen to one of his USB cables. He provides no name or contact details on his website.

p.s. I note his marketing. My grandfather used to smoke King Edward Panatellas in the morning and Coronas in the afternoon and evening. He smoked so many he imported them directly from Cuba. In my childhood home everything was stored in cigar boxes. He suffered a slow lingering death. Strange to market with cancer-sticks, as we call them here.

 

[Di-fi]

I'd never heard of Sablon Audio until I signed on to this site.

I'm using the Pulsar in Standalone mode, with my smallish 1TB music library on $200 network drive, and it works and sounds fine. I've agreed a sale on my Zen Mk3, It's just another box that takes up a cupboard in my dining room and it's just more stuff I don't need.

The Holo May/Pulsar combination was on the basis that I prefer to use the Sense software to Roon (I really like Sense) and they are both optimised for USB. I really like the design philosophy of Innuos. Their sales manager, Richard Colman and now a new guy, are straightforward. They are a totally non-nonsense company. Any foo b-s is for me a complete turn-off and an immediate cause to completely ignore a brand forever more, and sometimes the dealers who sell them.

Nordost started the cable pricing thing decades ago. You now have QSA-L getting Belden to put a Telegartner connector on a stock ethernet cable, probably costs $30, stick it on a cable burner for a few minutes (according to YouTube, QSA-L won't disclose anything) and slap a $4,000 price tag on it. It doesn't make it a $4,000 cable, it makes it a $30 cable with a $4,000 price tag. Here in the UK QSA sell a $0.30 fuse with a $10,000 price tag. (I have it in writing from the distributor that it is a physically unmodified Bussmann fuse.) I'm not picking on QSA-L, it fairly widespread, Belden sell to lots of trade people, as do other manufacturers.

I've looked at Sablon. It's only 30 minutes away from me. My observations on the USB:

1) It's a UK company aimed at the USA market. No £ prices. Probably due to there being little love in the general market for high-priced digital cables in the UK.
2) Says "world class musical performance at a real world price". Depends if you think $1,250 is a real world price for a USB cable. $5 is a real world price for a USB cable.
3) "Exquisite sounding hand-wound pure copper conductors". The conductors are sending digital packets. This is a classic analog/digital false equivalence. They have no sound because they are not sending a frequency-dependent signal.
I do not want a hand wound USB cable. USB has a technical specification, for example here: http://sdpha2.ucsd.edu/Lab_Equip_Manuals/usb_20.pdf
I want it made by a machine that can do so to a far more accurate tolerance than anyone doing it by hand.
3) Dual leg construction to distance noise from data wires - YES! See Supra for $130
4) "Superbly open and 'analogue' sound" - this is nonsense.

Their ethernet says:
1) Large gauge solid core copper conductors with extensive shielding and class leading measurements
2) Carefully terminated to minimise cross talk between channels using Telegaertner Cat 8 plugs

Everyone should know that CAT cable specifications are internationally standardised and primarily relate to speed and crosstalk. CAT5e is more than enough for audio as it has plenty of speed and bandwidth, but CAT6a seems to be best for audio as it has isolated pairs and thicker conductors than CAT6. Either the cable meets the specification or it does not. What is amazing is that Sablon do not state what the cable category is.

As for Telegaertner plugs, look at the Telegaertner website. Their only real purpose is to enable quick hand-made connections to faulty cables in data centres. Possibly also some benefit in PoE use, which I doubt anyone uses. They do not perform better than normal connectors and they may perform worse. It makes little difference because CAT standards are measured connector to connector, so as long as they pass the specification test, it doesn't matter.

Their size makes them problematic, they don't go don't my ethernet conduits and you can't plug one into a Ubiquiti access point. My house if fully Ubiquiti with close to 100 wireless devices attached.

I would be more than happy if the Sablon guy were to be passing my way to sit and listen to one of his USB cables. He provides no name or contact details on his website.

p.s. I note his marketing. My grandfather used to smoke King Edward Panatellas in the morning and Coronas in the afternoon and evening. He smoked so many he imported them directly from Cuba. In my childhood home everything was stored in cigar boxes. He suffered a slow lingering death. Strange to market with cancer-sticks, as we call them here.

I appreciate your comments. Maybe you over analyze a tiny bit, but I do appreciate your curiosity. The great thing is that you don't necessarily have to spend a substantial budget to discover high-quality USB or Ethernet cables. There are excellent options available without breaking the bank.

Personally I will simply relay what I hear. And what others recommend.

Admittedly the Sablon website is a little abstract. Maybe better to read a little here: https://whatsbestforum.com/forums/sablon-audio.390/

You could contact Mark at sablonaudio@gmail.com. But I would keep it simple, do not start with the most high end USB cable. And give it some time, like 30 days ;-). It will give you at least a reference point.

If you like to read more I can recommend a few USB cable reviews by Christiaan Punter. Being skeptical himself, some time ago, over the years he compared many, many USB cables (no Sablon though). Very well written, he always explains clearly the whole setup and also compares with other similar devices/equipment/cables.

Computer Audio Design USB I

This cable offers a unique combination of technical accuracy and sonorous, full-bodied, natural and organic sound.

www.hifi-advice.com

The following intro compares different digital connections and also what to ''hear for'' in a better USB cable.

Final Touch Audio Sinope USB cable

After all the USB cables that I reviewed, at some point, I truly felt that I had heard it all and there were no more surprises for me in store. Against this backdrop, it's an absolute joy to come across a new product that is so evidently superior to everything that came before it.

www.hifi-advice.com

 

[ssfas]

I appreciate your comments. Maybe you over analyze a tiny bit, but I do appreciate your curiosity. The beauty is that you do not have to spend a QSA budget to find a good USB or Ethernet cables.

Personally I will simply relay what I hear. And what others recommend.

Admittedly the Sablon website is a little abstract. Maybe better to read a little here: https://whatsbestforum.com/forums/sablon-audio.390/

You could contact Mark at sablonaudio@gmail.com. But I would keep it simple, do not start with the most high end USB cable. And give it some time, like 30 days ;-). It will give you at least a reference point.

If you like to read more I can recommend a few USB cable reviews by Christiaan Punter. Being skeptical himself, some time ago, over the years he compared many, many USB cables. Very well written, he always explains clearly the whole setup and also compares with other similar devices/equipment/cables.

Computer Audio Design USB I

This cable offers a unique combination of technical accuracy and sonorous, full-bodied, natural and organic sound.

www.hifi-advice.com

The following intro compares different digital connections and also what to ''hear for'' in a better USB cable.

Final Touch Audio Sinope USB cable

After all the USB cables that I reviewed, at some point, I truly felt that I had heard it all and there were no more surprises for me in store. Against this backdrop, it's an absolute joy to come across a new product that is so evidently superior to everything that came before it.

www.hifi-advice.com

Many thanks for that.

My over-analysis, that takes longer to type than think, is to try and get to the core of why a product might have some value. I react badly to any form of b-s, words like "quantum" and "graphene" are product-killers for me, even more offensive than people who smoke. When I find claims that a process that multiplies the cost of an ethernet cable x50 can also make better rice, my ears prick up. That's what makes this fun. I understand that intelligent people can go for this stuff. After all Isaac Newton, an all-time clever bloke, spent most of his time trying to turn base metals into gold. Likewise, a lot of cable-shifting is just a modern form of alchemy and about as meritorious. As Newton proved, you just have to believe.

Never heard of Christiaan Punter or HiFi Advice, but I have heard of CAD, for good and bad reasons. I like that he's a USB exponent, always has been, exclusively so. For reasons unknown, Jason Kennedy, who I always thought was sane, waxes lyrical about CAD USB cables.

What CP says suggests the need for a filtered usb cable is very system dependent.

Plus CAD are not far away and give a name and phone number. I may call.

 

[Vangelis]

Nice writeup on your experience and various setup options tried. Could you comment on the sound differences you heard of the Zen mk3 vs Pulsar?

I had a Zenith MKIIse. Many Innuos supporters felt the SE sounds better the MK3. I made comparisons over the long long breakin period of my Pulsar to confirm the differences. The Pulsar brought a seismic lift in swagger, ease, refinement, musical life and communication. The Pulsar improved on the music line, making it more understandable. My Zenith by comparison, sounded slow and compressed.

 

[ssfas]

I had a Zenith MKIIse. Many Innuos supporters felt the SE sounds better the MK3. I made comparisons over the long long breakin period of my Pulsar to confirm the differences. The Pulsar brought a seismic lift in swagger, ease, refinement, musical life and communication. The Pulsar improved on the music line, making it more understandable. My Zenith by comparison, sounded slow and compressed.

You've got the whole product range! Have you tried the Pulsar without the PhoenixUSB, given the Pulsar has its own reclocker?

 

[Vangelis]

You've got the whole product range! Have you tried the Pulsar without the PhoenixUSB, given the Pulsar has its own reclocker?

I covered this topic earlier, on page 2 & 3.

 

[kennyb123]

My over-analysis, that takes longer to type than think, is to try and get to the core of why a product might have some value.

What part do your ears play in this? I honestly don’t think research alone can get us to grasp how much a really good USB cable can improve sound quality. What might not seem to matter much can matter a great deal. One example is Shunyata’s approach of maintaining extremely tight tolerances. Per their literature “this means that tolerances of the conductor surface, dielectric extrusion, and the precision of the braided shield are held to minute variances”. This would necessarily lead to higher costs. I don’t see how we could know if this was worth it without listening.

 

[ssfas]

What part do your ears play in this? I honestly don’t think research alone can get us to grasp how much a really good USB cable can improve sound quality. What might not seem to matter much can matter a great deal. One example is Shunyata’s approach of maintaining extremely tight tolerances. Per their literature “this means that tolerances of the conductor surface, dielectric extrusion, and the precision of the braided shield are held to minute variances”. This would necessarily lead to higher costs. I don’t see how we could know if this was worth it without listening.

What I struggle to understand is how how you design something if you don't have a set of criteria to meet. I did use Shunyata, but they are impractical in a small space.

I get home loans or a decent demo, after filters are applied (as described above). I also believe that good products tend to be popular. I also go to hear plenty of music, got a Handel opera tomorrow minus Sir John Eliot Gardiner who got cancelled for hitting someone. I wish he'd hit someone earlier as the tickets would have been cheaper. He always had a temper, know someone who has refused to work with him for years because she couldn't put up with it. He may come back next year, with a bit of luck, he puts on a good show.