Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

Emile,
Please, can you inform the specifications of the hardware needed to install the internal drive? I mean, does it need a certain processor and motherboard?
My NAS is a ATX PSU from Pink Faun, and I could try to assemble a processor and motherboard where I, maybe, could install the Taiko Olympus internal SSD.
Also, the double PCiE adapter for the OS disk and files disk, is changed to a single PCiE adapter if only the OS disk is present when a Taiko Olympus customer doesn’t order any internal storage?
Thank you.

The hardware does need to support NVME drives. The music drive used in the Olympus is an U.3 drive, but it’s backwards compatible with U.2 (only the nvme type)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.2

We only made a dual drive PCIe adapter which we use for both single as dual drive deployments. Aka if you order without a music drive, you can always retrofit it yourself.

 

I'll echo what Emile mentioned above about downsampling. I'm using Roon downsampling as a bridge. For PCM, it is quite efficient and effective (I was comparing SQ to PGGB downsampled files)

 

Hi @wil ,

If you’re up for a little experiment; I suppose you don’t have a phase reversal switch on your preamp? If you do use it If you don’t try reversing your speaker cable polarity, simply swap plus/minus on the amplifier side. See if you notice a difference

Hmm…. So you’re thinking Internal Olympus Dac may have reversed polarity relative my Aries Cerat Ageto pre? I’ll give it a try.

I do already have normal polarity reversed because (as I vaguely understand) the Areis Cerat Ianus Triodfet components are single stage and so need to be reversed before the speakers to be in correct polarity to the speakers.

 

Back to comparing USB/Ithaka DAC and XDMI/internal DAC:

I'm listening to Chick Corea, Trilogy 2 , with Christian McBride and Brian Blade. -- an excellent live recording which captures the energy of the live music.

The two presentations are very different, both with their relative strengths/weakness.

USB/Ithaka: Great energy, speed. More live sounding. Maybe more sense of space and harmonics.

XDMI/Internal DAC: More mid bass centric. More smooth. Less noise? Less likely to fatigue. Seems to lack some of the life force of the Ithaka.

I'm left thinking, and it shouldn't be a surprise, that the best of both worlds may come together for me with XDMI native to Ithaka DAC.

Thanks very much, Wil for revisiting this.

I've been letting my Olympus play silently for the most part with my amp off to get some hours on the XDMI analog card. However, I finally broke down and snuck a little listen yesterday, just to hear how things were going.

Three hours later, I can say they are going very, very well.

I already can say with confidence that the quick comparison I did between Olympus USB and Extreme USB was no contest and based on that brief trial I've already sold my USB cable without a second thought.

However, as good as Olympus USB might be, when I started listening to Olympus XDMI analog it was game over for any thoughts of using Olympus USB for anything other than file transfers, not that I have any internal storage in my Olympus.

Olympus XDMI analog is doing everything better than I ever heard from Extreme USB > dCS Vivaldi APEX + Vivaldi Clock + Cybershaft OP21 master clock. Less noise, more clarity, nuance, space, imaging, ambience, the "three Ts" -- texture, tonality and timbre, articulation. And yes, even dynamics. Basically, any parameter a person would care to name is better, sometimes shockingly so, via Olympus XDMI analog.

I don't find it hard to believe that you find better dynamics with your Aires Cerat DAC. I don't have any experience with AC DACs but I do have an AC Incito S preamp here on long term loan through the generosity of Vassil (@nenon) and I what I hear and what I gather from reading about AC products in general is that dynamics are one of AC's fortes. However, I would also take Emile up on the experiment of reversing phase just to rule that out as a confounding factor.

It could be that the money shot for me might be Olympus XDMI AES/EBU into Vivaldi APEX, an experiment I will be getting to soon. I haven't heard anything about dCS being willing to work with Taiko on XDMI, so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

In the meantime, I'd have to say based on what I'm hearing with Olympus XDMI analog that no one who has posted rave reviews so far is exaggerating in the least. I couldn't be happier.

Steve Z

 

I'm left thinking, and it shouldn't be a surprise, that the best of both worlds may come together for me with XDMI native to Ithaka DAC.

I am talking out of only one side of my mouth as I have yet to listen to the Analogue board but for my ears Native XDMI via the digital board into my Horizon 360 os so good that I am hard pressed to even think about trying the analogue card in my system. I’m sure it's excellent but the sound I hear now is so good that for me this has become a set it and forget it type thing.. You've made me a happy camper @Taiko Audio .

Like Ray-dude I have no further use for my USB cable but have kept it for purposes of comparison at my LampizatOr open house this weekend for those who want to hear the difference

 

Hi @wil ,

If you’re up for a little experiment; I suppose you don’t have a phase reversal switch on your preamp? If you do use it If you don’t try reversing your speaker cable polarity, simply swap plus/minus on the amplifier side. See if you notice a difference

Hi Emile @Taiko Audio = When reversing polarity is it better for SQ to do it at the amp rather than the speaker? Thanks!

 

Hi @wil ,

If you’re up for a little experiment; I suppose you don’t have a phase reversal switch on your preamp? If you do use it If you don’t try reversing your speaker cable polarity, simply swap plus/minus on the amplifier side. See if you notice a difference

Getting the correct absolute phase output is way more important than streaming vs local storage (playback via streaming and highly compressed music files invariably introduce their own jitters, not 100% eliminated via the best accessories). I often wonder why absolute phase issue is hardly discussed (the PCs I use have 2 versions with opposite phase; correct version varies from component to component). Certain tube preamps and DACs output out of phase (180 degrees) from their input (necessarily so from their design, but often the manufacturers did not disclose the fact). Rule of thumb: 2 out-of-phase components cancel each other out, but a lone component's out-of-phase needs to be corrected (which I did once to a DAC by reversing the direction of ICs and switching the polarity of the speaker cables at the amp side - SQ improved hugely; if not corrected, the sound is muffled or choked; unfortunately most cables are not capable of reversing out of phase; only those cables with phase direction optimized are capable). Ideally, the server or the DAC should have a well-designed phase switch.

 

Hi Emile @Taiko Audio = When reversing polarity is it better for SQ to do it at the amp rather than the speaker? Thanks!

Emile may have a different view, but my experience is that it does not matter, either at the amp side or at the speaker side, but not both, in order to switch polarity.

 

Hi Emile @Taiko Audio = When reversing polarity is it better for SQ to do it at the amp rather than the speaker? Thanks!

I'm not Emile, but it doesn't matter in the least.

Steve Z

 

Thanks very much, Wil for revisiting this.

I've been letting my Olympus play silently for the most part with my amp off to get some hours on the XDMI analog card. However, I finally broke down and snuck a little listen yesterday, just to hear how things were going.

Three hours later, I can say they are going very, very well.

I already can say with confidence that the quick comparison I did between Olympus USB and Extreme USB was no contest and based on that brief trial I've already sold my USB cable without a second thought.

However, as good as Olympus USB might be, when I started listening to Olympus XDMI analog it was game over for any thoughts of using Olympus USB for anything other than file transfers, not that I have any internal storage in my Olympus.

Olympus XDMI analog is doing everything better than I ever heard from Extreme USB > dCS Vivaldi APEX + Vivaldi Clock + Cybershaft OP21 master clock. Less noise, more clarity, nuance, space, imaging, ambience, the "three Ts" -- texture, tonality and timbre, articulation. And yes, even dynamics. Basically, any parameter a person would care to name is better, sometimes shockingly so, via Olympus XDMI analog.

I don't find it hard to believe that you find better dynamics with your Aires Cerat DAC. I don't have any experience with AC DACs but I do have an AC Incito S preamp here on long term loan through the generosity of Vassil (@nenon) and I what I hear and what I gather from reading about AC products in general is that dynamics are one of AC's fortes. However, I would also take Emile up on the experiment of reversing phase just to rule that out as a confounding factor.

It could be that the money shot for me might be Olympus XDMI AES/EBU into Vivaldi APEX, an experiment I will be getting to soon. I haven't heard anything about dCS being willing to work with Taiko on XDMI, so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

In the meantime, I'd have to say based on what I'm hearing with Olympus XDMI analog that no one who has posted rave reviews so far is exaggerating in the least. I couldn't be happier.

Steve Z

As we have been saying, another serious wake up call to DAC manufacturers. Writing with a small group of audiophiles tonight, and if these findings continue, "we will all want an Olympus". Seems like the smart call for DAC manufacturers to pursue partnerships with Taiko on XDMI. Kudos to Lampizator and MSB already (my 360 upgrade en route back to US landed LA today, Olympus order placed December 30, 2023 = #84 in queue). And wow, to think this is just the beginning. Thanks for this report out @oldmustang. Very compelling.

 

Hi Emile @Taiko Audio = When reversing polarity is it better for SQ to do it at the amp rather than the speaker? Thanks!

I have an inverting preamp so I merely reverse the polarity coming out of the amp. Instructions stated you can also do it at the speaker. It doesn’t matter

 

Hmm…. So you’re thinking Internal Olympus Dac may have reversed polarity relative my Aries Cerat Ageto pre? I’ll give it a try.

I do already have normal polarity reversed because (as I vaguely understand) the Areis Cerat Ianus Triodfet components are single stage and so need to be reversed before the speakers to be in correct polarity to the speakers.

XDMI is “in phase”, but a lot of gear is not as indeed every gain stage reverses phase. Your sonic descriptions reminded of reversed phase, and now your system setup description seems to suggest this may indeed be the case

 

I haven't heard anything about dCS being willing to work with Taiko on XDMI, so I'm not holding my breath on that one.

We have not heard back so most likely no.

 

Hi Emile @Taiko Audio = When reversing polarity is it better for SQ to do it at the amp rather than the speaker? Thanks!

Emile may have a different view, but my experience is that it does not matter, either at the amp side or at the speaker side, but not both, in order to switch polarity.

I always do amplifier side but agree with @Moladiego, shouldn’t matter, technically..

 

If you’re asking me, I wouldn’t bother. These things can change, in which case you’ll have wasted your time.

(@Taiko Audio )

Based on Ray's tests and listening sessions , (@ray-dude ), the sampling rate significantly affects power consumption, which in turn impacts sound quality (when using the Taiko XDMI-DAC daughterboard).

If I understand correctly, he notes a threshold around PCM 24-bit/96kHz.

Beyond that limit, sound quality begins to degrade.

That's what led me to consider down-sampling some of my music files.

However, am I right in understanding that this limitation might be addressed in future updates?

Are you suggesting that upcoming changes could potentially remove that limit?

What kind of changes would that take? A new XDMI-DAC daughterboard?

Of course, if I can avoid wasting time downsampling, I wouldn't say no ))

Cheers,

Thomas

EDIT :

As Ray suggests above, downsampling can be done upstream, and in real time, via Roon.

But isn't that just moving the problem upstream?

More processor time means more power, more heat, and therefore more noise.

 

Any update on shipping progress? The status page hasn't been updated in 8 days. Not sure if the orders listed have been shipped yet.

 

Any update on shipping progress? The status page hasn't been updated in 8 days. Not sure if the orders listed have been shipped yet.

Refresh your browser.

 

(@Taiko Audio )

Based on Ray's tests and listening sessions , (@ray-dude ), the sampling rate significantly affects power consumption, which in turn impacts sound quality (when using the Taiko XDMI-DAC daughterboard).

If I understand correctly, he notes a threshold around PCM 24-bit/96kHz.

Beyond that limit, sound quality begins to degrade.

That's what led me to consider down-sampling some of my music files.

However, am I right in understanding that this limitation might be addressed in future updates?

Are you suggesting that upcoming changes could potentially remove that limit?

What kind of changes would that take? A new XDMI-DAC daughterboard?

Of course, if I can avoid wasting time downsampling, I wouldn't say no ))

Cheers,

Thomas

EDIT :

As Ray suggests above, downsampling can be done upstream, and in real time, via Roon.

But isn't that just moving the problem upstream?

More processor time means more power, more heat, and therefore more noise.

Hi @SwissTom ,

There’s quite a bit more to it than that.

Let me start with explaining why power consumption rises with increases in sample rate.

Saving power is a critical part of today’s high performance processors. The more power they can save, the higher the clock frequencies they can reach, for longer durations.

Higher sampling frequencies translate to higher data transmission rates which lowers the CPU’s ability to save power, decreasing performance and increasing temperatures, causing the CPU to start throttling.

Now understandably the thought may cross your mind how can one of the fastest CPUs you can buy today run into throttling while performing such a simple task as music playback.

That is caused by how we utilise the system. I probably mentioned before XDMI is 75% software, 25% hardware. The way we transfer / process music is extremely inefficient from a computing POV. It is however very favourable for sound quality, and I’m going to leave it at that…

Now let’s take a look at what happens if we increase sample rates from a DAC perspective. If you closely examine the datasheet of the Rohm DAC chip we use, a few things may catch your attention.

Noise figures are negatively impacted, THD+N drops from 115dB at 44.1KHz to 105dB at 768 KHz for example. BCLK frequency doubles when sampling rate doubles, so do several types of noise, like phase noise. Current draw (power consumption) on the digital supplies doubles.

Now we have another aspect of the Olympus system design coming into play, which is the battery power supply. The output noise of the BMS/BPS is lower than even the lowest noise regulator you can design.

This changes things a bit as where you would normally expect the regulator output to be lower noise then the power rails which power it, and although increasing the current load does increase noise, this relatively matters less.

But now we have regulators increasing noise, the noise is actually completely dominated BY the regulator noise, and now all of a sudden doubling load makes quite a large difference.

I hope this provides you with a different perspective, the other side of the coin if you will, on some detrimental effects higher sampling rates can have on performance. This affects every part of digital playback, source, transport, interface and DAC. This then needs to be offset by a potential benefit of that higher sample rate, if that’s actually really there is a discussion for some other time.

As, again, XDMI is 75% software, it will most definitely evolve there, there is a very long to-do list on that alone, naturally you can expect things to change, performance will very likely increase, so will functionality.

Then we have the daughter boards as well, the same thing applies there, after redesigning the source, and now the interface, perhaps we should take a fresh look at how DACs are designed at some point in the future.

 

@Taiko Audio Thanks for that information. Very educational.

F/U question - does everything you described apply for both the internal as well as an external DAC connected via XDMI? I assume most does but I don’t know what may not.

 

XDMI is “in phase”, but a lot of gear is not as indeed every gain stage reverses phase. Your sonic descriptions reminded of reversed phase, and now your system setup description seems to suggest this may indeed be the case

If I understand correctly, the Internal Dac and Xdmi outputs to (In Phase)? If so, then based on all my Aries components being single stage, by removing the Aries dac, I am out of phase at my speakers:

USB (in phase) > Aries Dac single stage (phase out) > Aries Pre single stage (phase in) > Aries Amps single stage (phase out) > speaker cables reversed from normal for (phase in).

But for

XDMI (in phase) > Aries Pre (phase out ) > Aries Amps > ( phase in) > speaker cables reversed = (phase out)