Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons

[Sampajanna]

I was explicitely NOT talking about you.

It almost looks like you are unfortunately "collateral damage" because of some dishonest other people. This should NOT have happened.
I know you are a decent and honest person.

I hope someone from Lampi will contact you soon.
Did you leave some form of contact data so they can reach you, not within this forum?

I appreciate all of you and this community so much. Everyone here has made my Lampi journey so much fun and my system has never sounded better. My VP4 is back and running. It was repaired. My local Lampi dealers are kind, honest people. In the end, there was no real hurt to me other than the ego for being blamed, which was, as you say, collateral damage. Understanding what Lampi was going through makes it all more understandable.

I did not bring this up multiple times to beat a dead horse or be annoying. My only desire was to help others here and maybe Lampi if they are listening. I am a huge fan and want them to succeed, truly.

 

[Holli82]

GOING TO BE A LATE NIGHT TONIGHT!!!!

This post is geared to non-Taiko owners and non-tube rollers. I have an Aurender N30SA for my streamer. I tube rolled once after receiving my Horizon 2 years ago. I am using the same tubes in my H360 (Takatsuki 274B, Psvane CV181 and Tungsol KT170).

I had no plans to upgrade my Horizon. I was happy with the SQ from my H1 and didn't think and upgrade was needed. After hearing the H360 at CAF in the VSA room and talking to Fred Ainsley, I did what most of us on this forum would do....I took the plunge for the upgrade.

Bottom line up front---I wished I upgraded sooner. I thought the upgrade was geared to Taiko owners (XDMI) but I am pleased to report that this non-Taiko owner is one happy camper. To paraphrase Lukasz, there is more of everything going from H1 to H360. I'll briefly describe my impressions after 48 hours.

1. Soundstage is wider and deeper.

2. Background is quieter and in my system, the noise floor is lower.

3. The volume settings on my pre-amp are exactly the same for both H1 and H360. I have experimented with different volume settings on the H360 and I cannot hear a difference in SQ between 63 or any of the other settings. I am currently running the H360 at a volume setting of 57.

4. I am hearing more details in the music and at a lower volumes.

5. Percussion and string instruments have a distinct texture that is almost visible in my mind.

I am sure there is more to come as the unit settles in. Looking forward to more late nights. and will report back as the unit breaks-in.

Big shout-out and thanks to Fred A. for outstanding customer service. All of my questions, texts and emails were answered promptly.

 

[Sampajanna]

I am one of the early 360 adopters and have the 9V version. I am considering a preamp recently, but it has a listed maximum input of 6V. Does that mean I have to turn the volume way down on Horizon? What volume would be 5V approximately? Is there any point having preamp then? I understand Lampi now switched and all 360 are 5V? Should I send mine to get changed like others?

Thanks for your help

 

[morricab]

I am one of the early 360 adopters and have the 9V version. I am considering a preamp recently, but it has a listed maximum input of 6V. Does that mean I have to turn the volume way down on Horizon? What volume would be 5V approximately? Is there any point having preamp then? I understand Lampi now switched and all 360 are 5V? Should I send mine to get changed like others?

Thanks for your help

A normal cd player or DAC that has no volume control will often have a fixed output voltage maximum of 2V. Many amps will put out full power with 1V or sometimes less. Very few amps will need anything close to 5V output.

 

[StefanK]

I am one of the early 360 adopters and have the 9V version. I am considering a preamp recently, but it has a listed maximum input of 6V. Does that mean I have to turn the volume way down on Horizon? What volume would be 5V approximately? Is there any point having preamp then? I understand Lampi now switched and all 360 are 5V? Should I send mine to get changed like others?

Thanks for your help

Yes, with 6V max you will have to lower the volume on H360.

But does it really matter?
It all depends on overall transparency of your system , quality of the preamp you want to use and your ears/preferences. In my case I hear a clear difference between volume 63 and anything below it (SQ wise of course) when connected to my Pilium Olympus preamp. At 63 the volume resistor ladder is bypassed.
But many users here on this forum claim they hear no difference at all.

So I would suggest you to test first and if you hear a difference you don’t want to accept only then send the unit in.
I have…

 

[Sampajanna]

Ordinarily I would say excellent advice, but I cannot test because volume bypassing at 63 would damage my preamp.

 

[morricab]

Ordinarily I would say excellent advice, but I cannot test because volume bypassing at 63 would damage my preamp.

Why would it damage your preamp?

 

[StefanK]

Ordinarily I would say excellent advice, but I cannot test because volume bypassing at 63 would damage my preamp.

No it won’t, you will just get distorted sound, especially on highs like cymbals, trumpets, etc. and it is rather hard to listen to.

Workaround for testing is very simple with Roon. Just enable ‘Headroom management’ and pick -6db or even lower, basically looking for a value when you no longer hear distorted sound.

 

[Holli82]

As promised, I said I would report back regarding my H360 upgrade after some break-in time. The Super Bowl is on and I have have it on mute because my quick pre-game listening session has now extended into the first half.

All of my observations after the initial 48 hours are confirmed but more importantly every aspect has improved.

Soundstage is truly 360. I feel like I'm in the middle of the soundstage.

New details in the music are almost overwhelming with both streaming and ripped files. I keep thinking I have new a remaster of all my files.

The midrange (in particular voices) has improved dramatically. Initially voices were a little harsh and grainy. That is history now. No grain or harshness.

I still can't tell a difference in SQ when I change the volume setting on the H360. I'm still at 57 on my DAC

Noise floor continues to remain quiet.

ALL OF YOU NON-TAIKO AND NON-TUBE ROLLERS NEED TO CONSIDER THIS UPGRADE TOO!

 

[Sampajanna]

No it won’t, you will just get distorted sound, especially on highs like cymbals, trumpets, etc. and it is rather hard to listen to.

Workaround for testing is very simple with Roon. Just enable ‘Headroom management’ and pick -6db or even lower, basically looking for a value when you no longer hear distorted sound.

Thanks so much for the advice. Shows what i know!

 

[godofwealth]

Ordinarily I would say excellent advice, but I cannot test because volume bypassing at 63 would damage my preamp.

It’s important to use a preamplifier that has high overload margins. I use an ARC Ref 6SE that can effortlessly handle the full 7-8 V put out by my KR 242s in the Pacific and I’m sure anything the Horizon 360 puts out. Harry Pearson used to argue the preamp is the most important piece of electronics in your system and I’ve never had reason to doubt that. A great preamp just brings so much more life to music. The only preamp I’d consider now over my Ref 6SE is the Ref 10. ARC has been making preamps for 50+ years and that sort of experience is worth paying for, just as their tube amplifiers are just unmatched. I’ve never heard a better amplifier than the giant ARC 750SEs I now use with my Pacific. It lifts my Pacific into an entirely different sonic class.

 

[Steve williams]

They do make excellent electronics. Years ago I had a Ref 5 and the Reference 600 Mk ll Sound was gorgeous but they used 32 tubes per channel and the heat given off made me out in a 3rd HVAC in my house this one just for my sound toon.

 

[Ron Dijkstra]

It’s important to use a preamplifier that has high overload margins. I use an ARC Ref 6SE that can effortlessly handle the full 7-8 V put out by my KR 242s in the Pacific and I’m sure anything the Horizon 360 puts out. Harry Pearson used to argue the preamp is the most important piece of electronics in your system and I’ve never had reason to doubt that. A great preamp just brings so much more life to music. The only preamp I’d consider now over my Ref 6SE is the Ref 10. ARC has been making preamps for 50+ years and that sort of experience is worth paying for, just as their tube amplifiers are just unmatched. I’ve never heard a better amplifier than the giant ARC 750SEs I now use with my Pacific. It lifts my Pacific into an entirely different sonic class.

I have (and still have) a REF 5SE and a Pass Labs XP-32 and did use both with my H360. Although it maybe resulted in a little more dynamics I had the feeling that it was less open and more flat overall. Now I have one good interconnect going straight to the H360 and with the right tubes it sounds pretty good. Maybe less is also more here? Did you try to leave your pre amp out?

 

[godofwealth]

I have tried DACs with a preamp out for decades, beginning with the original dCS Elgar Plus 30 years ago. Even now, I have several DACs with that capability, like the Chord Dave, the Eversolo streamers, and the Mola Mola Makua. IMHO, I've yet to hear a DAC with a built-in preamp that outperforms a state-of-the-art preamp like the 6SE. There are obviously tradeoffs. With the Elgar Plus directly driving my amplifiers, you did get a sense of purity, but at a huge cost in dynamics and overall sound staging. To me, the tradeoff was unacceptable. Of course, it depends on the system. I operate 5-6 systems at home. I have a smaller system in my bedroom that I use an Eversolo streamer+DAC+preamp driving an amplifier directly, and that works perfectly well. I don't want to have a gigantic tube amplifier in my bedroom! In my dining room, I use the Mola Mola built-in DAC with the Makua preamp to directly drive the Kaluga mono blocks into a pair of Quads. Works really nicely, of course, the Mola Mola is not an inexpensive product! I have not tried the Horizon 360 or the Poseidon. Maybe if I did, I might change my mind!

 

[Ron Dijkstra]

Ok... Poseidon is nice but not the same as Horizon (360). I heard both. Poseidon is less open and precise. I think from H360 straight to your power amps with very good cables between the H360 and the Amps is the cleanest and most open way and I have no lack at all of dynamics with my Pass labs Xs300 amps. What I like about it is that I get the "tube sound" of my choice fed directly into my 300 watt class A amplification...

 

[John T]

I've run multiple DACS directly to The Gryphon Mephisto along with other Amps, with great cables. IMO and in MY SYSTEM, WITH MY EARS, Direct without a Line stage/Preamplifier you lose a refinement that cannot be duplicated. At first you think wow I've been missing out. All the added dynamics. Then after an hour fatigue sets in and the distinction is beyond noticeable. I can only wish I could achieve the results I want without a very expensive Line Stage/Pre...

 

[Steve williams]

I've run multiple DACS directly to The Gryphon Mephisto along with other Amps, with great cables. IMO and in MY SYSTEM, WITH MY EARS, Direct without a Line stage/Preamplifier you lose a refinement that cannot be duplicated. At first you think wow I've been missing out. All the added dynamics. Then after an hour fatigue sets in and the distinction is beyond noticeable. I can only wish I could achieve the results I want without a very expensive Line Stage/Pre...

I agree John. I cant be without my preamp. Plus my preamp was designed to work with my amp but whatever works for each user......it's all good.

 

[godofwealth]

Agreed. My ARC 6SE complements my ARC 750SE’s. I think taken on its own it might soften transients a tad, as the Stereophile review alleged. Over the decades, ARC preamps have varied their sound, from being more solid-state’ish to being more tubey. It all comes down to system chemistry in the end. I find it a great match with my Lampi Pacific.

Speaking of which, the esteemed Harry Pearson, who founded TAS many decades ago, declared a Clearaudio turntable “the sexiest beast in high end audio”. I would confer that illustrious title on Lampi DACs, which to me are the sexiest beasts in high end audio today. They’re iconic designs and I’m willing to wager their worth will increase over time, like the old classic McIntosh amplifiers.

 

[ctydwn]

i whole heartedly would say the horizon version 1 and horizon 360 serve as incredible dac/preamp combo. I ran them direct for 18 months. As a preamp, the Horizon direct supplanted the arc ref 10 as well as simaudio’s reference preamp 850p. both in the mid $30k range. and what cost savings.

but, once i heard the soulution 725 and now the 727, hands down the preamp sounds better vs dac direct w the horizon 360. ymmv imho. only makes sense that a hi end preamp is made to deliver on top of a high end dac. unless of course everything is turned upside down with the olympus. (ordered december 2023. hopeful by april 2025 and will report!)

 

[godofwealth]

Solid state preamps are tricky in terms of system matching. I’ve owned Krell and Mark Levinson preamps. The Krell 202 was the “fastest” preamp I’ve heard — its response goes into the megahertz range — but there was precious little “meat on the bones” to use an analogy. I felt it emphasized transients at the expense of musical richness. I couldn’t live with it long-term. The Levinson 32 was better but it just sounded too barebones on many recordings. Ultimately I always went back to ARC preamps. I’m also running an ARC Ref 3SE phono stage through my 6SE, so it’s hard to break that synergy. If I only ran one streaming source, I’d spring for the Taiko O + Horizon 360!