Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

Unless I have misread stuff, XDMI is available with the I/O which can be added to the Extreme which is the old CPU. So, I am not sure you need the new CPU for XDMI. Correct me if I am wrong.

Good question. But then why couldn't the xdmi card be implemented in the extreme? I thought Emile said xdmi required new hardware.

 

I believe that XDMI is only available for Olympus and I/O. I don't think that you can add I/O to the Extreme. Emile?

Right, but the I/O can work with the Exteme. That was my point.

 

I believe that XDMI is only available for Olympus and I/O. I don't think that you can add I/O to the Extreme. Emile?

I believe adding an I/O to the extreme was the lowest cost option for getting xdmi, per the pricing options post.

Edit: what dminches said

 

I believe that XDMI is only available for Olympus and I/O. I don't think that you can add I/O to the Extreme. Emile?

Yes you can, you can add Olympus I/O with XDMI to the Extreme (as Olympus I/O is battery powered). The Olympus server can have XDMI mounted internally (because it has internal battery supplies). XDMI is designed to run off battery power.

 

Yes you can, you can add Olympus I/O with XDMI to the Extreme (as Olympus I/O is battery powered). The Olympus server can have XDMI mounted internally (because it has internal battery supplies). XDMI is designed to run off battery power.

View attachment 122005

Is the new CPU also in the I/O?
Or is battery power the "needed" new hardware not in the extreme?

 

Is the new CPU also in the I/O?

The Olympus I/O has no CPU, it’s not a music server. The Olympus server has the new CPU.

 

I believe that XDMI is only available for Olympus and I/O. I don't think that you can add I/O to the Extreme. Emile?

Bob I believe their are 2 Options For The Extreme: Option 1 Olympus I/0, Option 2 Olympus I/0 XDMI. With both one has to return USB and Network card...

 

I have to admit that reading all of the posts about XDMI as well as some texts with Emile, I am every day more and more on board ith XDMI and now have a strong desire to hear XDMI analogue It is my inference that Taiko has been somewhat quiet about this new interface with the hope that new users will find what Emile has said all along...that XDMI is so good that it will become a new industry standard. I really doubt that Emile would make such bold comments if in fact he wasn't so sure about what he is hearing. For me to go XDMI into the Horizon via AES/EBU is a huge step back from my typical listening paradigm , yet having said that I believe he just might be onto something via XDMI analogue with the internal DAC. I get strong gut feelings from Emile's comments that XDMI analogue is indeed something very different and might, just maybe, equal or surpass the sound heard from everyone's External DAC.
@lukasz Lampizator fikus....if you're reading this, I sure hope you're working on a fix that will reassure us Lampi users if in fact the internal DAC is as good as Emile has stated, and again, there is just no reason to doubt Emile when he makes these forecasts. I think he is smiling to himself as he awaits some first owners' feedback as to what they hear with their DAC vs the internal DAC . Can someone explain how those who order XDMI digital or XDMI analogue will be able to hear BOTH? My head can't figure this out

 

I think he is smiling to himself as he awaits some first owners' feedback as to what they hear with their DAC vs the internal DAC. Can someone explain how those who order XDMI digital or XDMI analogue will be able to hear BOTH? My head can't figure this out

If I understood correctly, Olympus XDMI will also keep the USB output based on the current Extreme card, so comparing XDMI analog out vs. using any DAC via USB will be very easy.

 

I have to admit that reading all of the posts about XDMI as well as some texts with Emile, I am every day more and more on board ith XDMI and now have a strong desire to hear XDMI analogue It is my inference that Taiko has been somewhat quiet about this new interface with the hope that new users will find what Emile has said all along...that XDMI is so good that it will become a new industry standard. I really doubt that Emile would make such bold comments if in fact he wasn't so sure about what he is hearing. For me to go XDMI into the Horizon via AES/EBU is a huge step back from my typical listening paradigm , yet having said that I believe he just might be onto something via XDMI analogue with the internal DAC. I get strong gut feelings from Emile's comments that XDMI analogue is indeed something very different and might, just maybe, equal or surpass the sound heard from everyone's External DAC.
@lukasz Lampizator fikus....if you're reading this, I sure hope you're working on a fix that will reassure us Lampi users if in fact the internal DAC is as good as Emile has stated, and again, there is just no reason to doubt Emile when he makes these forecasts. I think he is smiling to himself as he awaits some first owners' feedback as to what they hear with their DAC vs the internal DAC . Can someone explain how those who order XDMI digital or XDMI analogue will be able to hear BOTH? My head can't figure this out

At least initially, when you order an Olympus or Olympus I/O with XDMI you get an XDMI "mother" card *and* two XDMI daughter cards -- an XDMI analog output and an XDMI digital output daughter card.

In my case I won't be able to do an immediate A/B comparison between XDMI digital to my Vivaldi APEX DAC and XDMI analog direct output, it will take a couple of minutes to swap the daughter cards on the XDMI mother card. But I can live with that for the purposes of the comparison.

I don't have to painstakingly switch back and forth, back and forth teasing out subtle nuances between my Vivaldi DAC and the XDMI analog output. If it is that close, then the winner for me is the XDMI analog output and the Vivaldi goes down the road. What I actually expect is that just hearing which one gives me the most joy and emotional involvement with my music will determine what stays and what goes.


Steve Z

 

I should have looked at the price sheet. Olympus I/0 to add to Extreme $24,000 (Intro) and $30,800 for I/O XDMI to add to Extreme (Intro price)

Yes and as indicated one has to return both the USB/Network Card...

 

. Can someone explain how those who order XDMI digital or XDMI analogue will be able to hear BOTH? My head can't figure this out

well it’s just too easy. I have to admit that I saw the photos of the two daughter boards but it didn’t register on me that both are supplied I thought it was one or the other.

I still think that’s Emile is playing it tight to the vest re XDMI analogue and is awaiting early adopters comments. Suffice it to say that should this be as good as we all expected then I suppose we can eventually see a new industry standard evolve and this could be the goose that laid the golden egg for Taiko I’ve learned to never bet against Emile . I’m beginning to understand the logic behind members now asking for a volume control which in essence has one box going from server to internal DAC direct to amplifiers is the wheel coming full circle? There was a time when Integrated components ruled the day until they became modular and now perhaps a return to integrated

 

Yes you can, you can add Olympus I/O with XDMI to the Extreme (as Olympus I/O is battery powered). The Olympus server can have XDMI mounted internally (because it has internal battery supplies). XDMI is designed to run off battery power.

View attachment 122005

Emile, I'd like to better understand the advantage Option 4 offers vs. Option 3. I recall in this discussion Option 4 offers a 10-15% improvement in sound performance for the reasons explained. Beyond the performance improvement are there other reasons to add the Olympus O/I such as the physical capability to accommodate future I/O options or would those be accommodated in Option 3 as well?

 

My two cents.

XDMI is designed to improve two things:

1. From player to digital signal out.

2. From digital signal out to DAC getting I2S.

For player to digital signal out: this step will usually need to go through

a) Windows drivers

b) Some hardware for digital output, e.g. a USB PCIE card or a AES/EBU PCIE card

Both of these are very suboptimal at the moment, since in order to manage R&D cost and due to lack of deep enough understanding of all factors that affect sound in the process there are (at least) three limiting factors:

i) Usage of off the shelf driver components/code for the driver

ii) Usage of off the shelf hardware components and schemes for the cards

iii) Non optimal way the driver and hardware work together

This whole area of player to digital signal out seems to have been reimagined from the grounds up in XDMI and it seems to have found a way to transport this signal through QSFP and DAC cable with very close to no loss in SQ.

The signal is transferred from either Extreme or from Olympus to Olympus IO through QSFP DAC cable.

Olympus IO transmits either

a) Digital out through SPDIF or AES/EBU, and even though the digital “close to lossless SQ” signal received by O IO from Extreme or O needs to go through a conversion, it benefits from everything above and the conversion itself I would bet has also been to a high extent rebuilt to minimize SQ loss. In other words, the digital signal received by the DAC is way better than previously through USB.

or

b) Analogue out, and in this case the DAC module receives immediate I2S directly from the digital “close to lossless SQ” signal O IO received from Extreme or O. So even if the engineering surrounding the DAC module itself is somewhat compact, by getting rid of the conversion steps to AES and back to I2S and by powering it with the BPS and separately enclosing it in the O IO the gain might be so huge that it exceeds the engineering of almost any DAC.

Now, if a stand alone DAC could receive the “native” QSFP digital signal, you get all the benefits of the signal transmission and the DAC engineering, but without BPS to power the DAC (of course the QSFP module on the DAC could be externally powered by a BPS). So in that case it would be a matter of the gains in DAC engineering vs the loss of one more QSFP transfer and lack of BPS.

I’m not sure anyone has really heard this yet, but this would be my bet for best SQ. And once people hear the analogue out of XDMI, DAC manufacturers should be much more incentivized to include the “native” module.

 

well it’s just too easy. I have to admit that I saw the photos of the two daughter boards but it didn’t register on me that both are supplied I thought it was one or the other.

I still think that’s Emile is playing it tight to the vest re XDMI analogue and is awaiting early adopters comments. Suffice it to say that should this be as good as we all expected then I suppose we can eventually see a new industry standard evolve and this could be the goose that laid the golden egg for Taiko I’ve learned to never bet against Emile . I’m beginning to understand the logic behind members now asking for a volume control which in essence has one box going from server to internal DAC direct to amplifiers is the wheel coming full circle? There was a time when Integrated components ruled the day until they became modular and now perhaps a return to integrated

From Emile's post #542 in this thread:

All I can say that IMHO XDMI analogue out is at the very minimum competitive to anything I've heard. If you like it better then your current DAC however is just not something I can accurately predict. I'm very interested in people's experiences with it which is the main reason to supply both analogue and digital output modules in addition to the introduction discount. (bolding and italics mine for emphasis)

This is coming from someone who has always struck me as being careful to manage expectations and does not engage in hyperbole. So, very significant as well as very promising. The proof will be in the listening of course.

Steve Z

 

There are plenty well designed AES/EBU cards available but they do not perform on the same level as XDMI. In fact they don’t even perform on the same level as our USB solution.

May it be possible that the XDMI - Taiko USB work better then XDMI - AES/EBU?

 

May it be possible that the XDMI - Taiko USB work better then XDMI - AES/EBU?

Just for clarity, the USB doesn't utilize the XDMI interface.

 

My two cents.

XDMI is designed to improve two things:

1. From player to digital signal out.

2. From digital signal out to DAC getting I2S.

For player to digital signal out: this step will usually need to go through

a) Windows drivers

b) Some hardware for digital output, e.g. a USB PCIE card or a AES/EBU PCIE card

Both of these are very suboptimal at the moment, since in order to manage R&D cost and due to lack of deep enough understanding of all factors that affect sound in the process there are (at least) three limiting factors:

i) Usage of off the shelf driver components/code for the driver

ii) Usage of off the shelf hardware components and schemes for the cards

iii) Non optimal way the driver and hardware work together

This whole area of player to digital signal out seems to have been reimagined from the grounds up in XDMI and it seems to have found a way to transport this signal through QSFP and DAC cable with very close to no loss in SQ.

The signal is transferred from either Extreme or from Olympus to Olympus IO through QSFP DAC cable.

Olympus IO transmits either

a) Digital out through SPDIF or AES/EBU, and even though the digital “close to lossless SQ” signal received by O IO from Extreme or O needs to go through a conversion, it benefits from everything above and the conversion itself I would bet has also been to a high extent rebuilt to minimize SQ loss. In other words, the digital signal received by the DAC is way better than previously through USB.

or

b) Analogue out, and in this case the DAC module receives immediate I2S directly from the digital “close to lossless SQ” signal O IO received from Extreme or O. So even if the engineering surrounding the DAC module itself is somewhat compact, by getting rid of the conversion steps to AES and back to I2S and by powering it with the BPS and separately enclosing it in the O IO the gain might be so huge that it exceeds the engineering of almost any DAC.

Now, if a stand alone DAC could receive the “native” QSFP digital signal, you get all the benefits of the signal transmission and the DAC engineering, but without BPS to power the DAC (of course the QSFP module on the DAC could be externally powered by a BPS). So in that case it would be a matter of the gains in DAC engineering vs the loss of one more QSFP transfer and lack of BPS.

I’m not sure anyone has really heard this yet, but this would be my bet for best SQ. And once people hear the analogue out of XDMI, DAC manufacturers should be much more incentivized to include the “native” module.

As I am (trying) to understand, we have the following 4 scenarios to compare and choose from with regards to XDMI digital to analog conversion.

1. Olympus > via USB > DAC.

2. Xdmi digital > via AES > DAC

3. Xdmi digital to analog > direct to Pre amp

4. Xdmi digital > via QSFP > to XDMI board and BPS at DAC?

I seems like Option 4 could be implemented a number of different ways from relatively straight forward to complicated and expensive.

To me, Option 3 is beautiful in it’s simplicity. I would love to go this route.

Option 4 seems to be by far the most complex, ambitious and expensive proposition. Maybe, cost no object, it could be the best?

It will be interesting to see if dac manufactures and Taiko can come up with a practical solution for option 4.

 

At least initially, when you order an Olympus or Olympus I/O with XDMI you get an XDMI "mother" card *and* two XDMI daughter cards -- an XDMI analog output and an XDMI digital output daughter card.

In my case I won't be able to do an immediate A/B comparison between XDMI digital to my Vivaldi APEX DAC and XDMI analog direct output, it will take a couple of minutes to swap the daughter cards on the XDMI mother card. But I can live with that for the purposes of the comparison.

I don't have to painstakingly switch back and forth, back and forth teasing out subtle nuances between my Vivaldi DAC and the XDMI analog output. If it is that close, then the winner for me is the XDMI analog output and the Vivaldi goes down the road. What I actually expect is that just hearing which one gives me the most joy and emotional involvement with my music will determine what stays and what goes.


Steve Z

That's the million dollar question I think we all want to know. Whether XDMI analogue out makes our Dacs redundant and the trade up price more palatable!

 

That's the million dollar question I think we all want to know. Whether XDMI analogue out makes our Dacs redundant and the trade up price more palatable!

I am hopeful of that and also realize this is Taiko’s first iteration. I am sure the development isn’t stopping here.