Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[Amir]

Most audio magazines/reviews are just marketing tools for more sales so I never liked them.

David is not here to share his idea about TAS, Stereophile, 6moon, …
Romy is not here to share his idea about audio magazines…
I know both of them do not like audio reviews.

In my opinion trusting audio reviewers is equal to wasting money/time/effort with random results.

I bet many reviewers even do not know “what is the right sound”. They can not have proper idea about what they hear.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I bet many reviewers even do not know “what is the right sound”. They can not have proper idea about what they hear.

Good " sound " needs a large marketing budget .

 

[hopkins]

Actor Michael Shannon seems to be proud of his (rather small) "record collection", and that's great, but he certainly has not invested a lot into his "system":

As a teenager, I had a better turntable, with two small speakers. That Crosley Keepsake must sound pretty terrible! I think it goes for around 100$.

 

[gleeds]

In the fact pattern I postulated each DAC manufacturer may gain a sale of an extremely limited production, very expensiv

In the fact pattern I postulated each DAC manufacturer may gain a sale of an extremely limited production, very expensive DAC. In my example the visiting client would be happy to sign a nondisclosure agreement, so the manufacturer is comfortable that no one will know the factory visit occurred, or that the comparison occurred, or that the prospective client preferred his/her far less expensive incumbent DAC.

e DAC. In my example the visiting client would be happy to sign a nondisclosure agreement, so the manufacturer is comfortable that no one will know the factory visit occurred, or that the comparison occurred, or that the prospective client preferred his/her far less expensive incumbent DAC.

Ron, with all due respect for your experience and legal background, nobody can keep a secret in high-end audio, and what consumer would want to sign an NDA to compare one DAC to another? I would proffer that SQ is not the only determining factor when purchasing a bleeding-edge, costly product. As with exotic cars, we all have intangibles that pull at our emotional need to buy the best, including a brand's pedigree, what others think, and the opinions of reviewers, dealers, influencers, and the like. It's a lengthy thread, so if I've missed any context, I apologize in advance.

My recent experience while showing with you at THE Show SoCal was that the Taiko Olympus Vasille provided us with the internal DAC, which was among the best digital I have yet heard. The idea of one box doing it all was extremely appealing! For some of the best digital options, I'm not sure I see the reason for pushing beyond the $95,000 asking price, except maybe for a Horizon with XDMI into the Olympus, but then I would need another box.

 

[Holmz]

…. It's a lengthy thread, so if I've missed any context, I apologize in advance. …

^As Confucius say, “Octopus have many tentacle,”^

 

[Sc00ter]

Actor Michael Shannon seems to be proud of his (rather small) "record collection", and that's great, but he certainly has not invested a lot into his "system":

As a teenager, I had a better turntable, with two small speakers. That Crosley Keepsake must sound pretty terrible! I think it goes for around 100$.

Given that the records (his mother’s) and turntable (quite likely also his mother’s) are obviously just mentioned in passing as part of a house tour, why bother to belittle or one-up him? He sounds like any normal person trying to find something to talk about when a microphone’s stuck in his face.

 

[hopkins]

Given that the records (his mother’s) and turntable (quite likely also his mother’s) are obviously just mentioned in passing as part of a house tour, why bother to belittle or one-up him? He sounds like any normal person trying to find something to talk about when a microphone’s stuck in his face.

His mother's turntable??? He also mentions buying records...

I am not trying to "belittle" him, I just find it amusing, and it is anothet reminder that many people simply don't care about sound quality.

 

[Sc00ter]

His mother's turntable??? He also mentions buying records...

I am not trying to "belittle" him, I just find it amusing, and it is anothet reminder that many people simply don't care about sound quality.

Ah - and I quite agree. Whenever I try to get someone to sit down and listen to the different voices and instrument’s placement in the soundstage, they look at me like I have two heads.
Or maybe it’s just sympathy, because they really can’t hear it.

 

[Atmasphere]

Ah - and I quite agree. Whenever I try to get someone to sit down and listen to the different voices and instrument’s placement in the soundstage, they look at me like I have two heads.
Or maybe it’s just sympathy, because they really can’t hear it.

Hm. I have no trouble demonstrating depth and sound stage in my system. Everyone who has heard my system has been able to hear that.

 

[hopkins]

Hm. I have no trouble demonstrating depth and sound stage in my system. Everyone who has heard my system has been able to hear that.

There's a difference between hearing it and finding it important - not to mention "essential".

Arthur Salvatore has a chapter on this: the 7 levels of audible improvements

Audio Philosophy

Not until level 5 do you reach improvements that "cannot be ignored by ordinary listeners". Level 6 and 7 are obviously only "dramatic" and "essential" to us audiophiles...

 

[Atmasphere]

There's a difference between hearing it and finding it important - not to mention "essential".

Arthur Salvatore has a chapter on this: the 7 levels of audible improvements

Audio Philosophy

Not until level 5 do you reach improvements that "cannot be ignored by ordinary listeners". Level 6 and 7 are obviously only "dramatic" and "essential" to us audiophiles...

Apparently I value imaging and depth!

 

[cjfrbw]

Sometimes high end stereo is so different from anything non-philes have ever heard, it tends to be disorienting to them rather than inspiring. They have to let their brain circuits adjust, but a lot don't even care to do that.
"What was that I am hearing? Weird."

 

[Porsche]

im all about resolution, imaging and accuracy with voice and instruments, im very happy with my set up

 

[PYP]

Sometimes high end stereo is so different from anything non-philes have ever heard, it tends to be disorienting to them rather than inspiring. They have to let their brain circuits adjust, but a lot don't even care to do that.
"What was that I am hearing? Weird."

There are a few technicians who have worked on HVAC and electrical systems in our house who have shown an interest in hearing our setup. Most folks don't even seem to notice (to generalize: plumbers don't seem interested). But those who are interested react very positively to hearing a setup that sounds more like live than they are used to hearing. No special skill set seems to be needed. Just curiosity.

One electrician looked at the power cord pythons behind the setup and expressed his admiration. Another was curious whether the speaker cabinets vibrated. One fellow was curious about the ancient installation of three Shakti stones on the metal cover of the breaker box and said that damping was beneficial.

The weird part, to me, is the near obsessive quality and some of the rigid dogma/belief systems among "audiophiles." It doesn't need to be that complicated.

 

[Al M.]

But those who are interested react very positively to hearing a setup that sounds more like live than they are used to hearing. No special skill set seems to be needed. Just curiosity.

Same here. All the non-audiophiles who have heard my system have reacted very positively to it. They are just not interested to spend the money.

Six years ago a relative of mine and his wife were on a visit from Austria and blown away by the sound. There were still talking about it years later. In the meantime my sound has improved far beyond that.

 

[hopkins]

They are just not interested to spend the money.

Complexity is also often an issue. People want something that is "plug and play". This is hardly the case for high-end audio.

 

[Sc00ter]

im all about resolution, imaging and accuracy with voice and instruments, im very happy with my set up

Ditto. However, as mentioned by someone else in the thread, the people I play my system for can hear the detail, it’s just not as important to them as it is to me

 

[Sc00ter]

His mother's turntable??? He also mentions buying records...

I am not trying to "belittle" him, I just find it amusing, and it is anothet reminder that many people simply don't care about sound quality.

My apologies, I just re-watched the video (twice), and apparently I hallucinated the part about the records being his mother’s. I’m still confused about where that second video of the turntable playing a record fits into the story.

 

[hopkins]

My apologies, I just re-watched the video (twice), and apparently I hallucinated the part about the records being his mother’s. I’m still confused about where that second video of the turntable playing a record fits into the story.

That is the same model he was. I looked it up, as I was curious to see what it was.

 

[jeromelang]

Ah - and I quite agree. Whenever I try to get someone to sit down and listen to the different voices and instrument’s placement in the soundstage, they look at me like I have two heads.
Or maybe it’s just sympathy, because they really can’t hear it.

next time, play them this video first.
(with the sound going through your audio system)

then play Hotel California Live (video), followed by the non-video CD