Is it Possible to Properly Evaluate a Product if one Doesn't Like how it Sounds? Are Experts just Preaching Their Tastes?

[Synaxis]

Since we are going to going to have another go about who can hear and who can’t, time to remember what happened the last couple times.

I stand by my 2016 statement to a famous tube amp manufacturer at T.H.E. Show in Irvine. There only properly designed amps and amps that aren’t.

I don’t want people to lighten up, the crazier the better.

And I fully respect your opinion even in instances where we disagree.

You've done a great job holding people accountable for what they've done in the past and that is to be lauded.

 

[Ted Denney III]

It's certainly not common everywhere, but I think it's similar with camera's (it is in the cinema world with Sony vs Canon) and also Ford vs. Chevy. Would you agree?

I remember having to sort through all that crap when trying to figure out what camera to buy. And the camera companies buy off YouTubers BIG TIME.

You are correct. I’d forgotten the photography brand tribal wars. In the ‘90s, I was a Leica M6 guy. And when the first digital backs came out for my Summicron lenses, I jumped down that rabbit hole where I engaged in arguments with guys who had Nikons and Canons. They were obsessed with what we were paying for glass and digital backs. Now I shoot with an iPhone and put my pictures online, so I’m no longer obsessed with the gear—just compositions. Memory Lane.

 

[hopkins]

What's the point of anyone of the forums sharing what they like and don't like?

I simply make content for the fun of sharing hifi. I'm not here to persuade or get people to buy anything.

Unlike the mags, some people on this forum, and many YouTube "reviewers" I don't get paid to promote companies.

Edited to add: I should clarify there are actually three things I *am* trying to accomplish in my videos:

1) Use your own ears to decide. Nothing anyone else says matters;
2) To hopefully share my love and passion for tube gear to get more people interested in tube amps;
3) People need to lighten up and just enjoy music and don't get so uptight over what sound best, what is the best gear, or what other people buy or spend their money on.

I know, you have told me before that you are not a "reviewer". But then, why are you talking about what you do on your channel in this thread?

If you give your opinion about products on YouTube - even if it is just to say "I like it but you may not because we all have out personal tastes", then you are "reviewing".... Your video descriptions even state: "I DO NOT GET PAID FOR REVIEWS"

On the other hand, you also claim that you are not an "audiophile"

Vis à vis the amp review, which you did not like - this one?

Your review in summary: well build, so something to consider. At no point in the video you mention that you don't like the sound. Yet in the introduction you explain that you only review products you like.... Before you talk about honesty in audio reviews, perhaps you should clean up your own act?

 

[tima]

I know, you have told me before that you are not a "reviewer". But then, why are you talking about what you do on your channel in this thread?

If you give your opinion about products on YouTube - even if it is just to say "I like it but you may not because we all have out personal tastes", then you are "reviewing".... Your video descriptions even state: "I DO NOT GET PAID FOR REVIEWS"

On the other hand, you also claim that you are not an "audiophile"

Vis à vis the amp review, which you did not like - this one?

Your review in summary: well build, so something to consider. At no point in the video you mention that you don't like the sound. Yet in the introduction you explain that you only review products you like.... Before you talk about honesty in audio reviews, perhaps you should clean up your own act?

Interesting comments. I'll do the courtesy of adding @Synaxis to mine. He's been here about a year and likes to post. I bear him no malice.

There are reasons he is not a reviewer and constantly claiming not to be one is part of his schtick. Same for constantly telling us he does not get paid. I imagine he makes these claims out of his belief they cause believability in his viewers and helps to attract a certain segment of audio consumers to watch his videos. Comments such as "Unlike the mags, some people on this forum, and many YouTube "reviewers" I don't get paid to promote companies." are intended to create a a contrast between himself and the mainstream audio media. And that contrast does exist but perhaps not for the reasons he implies.

Synaxis is not a reviewer insofar as his commentary is not vetted by an independent publisher and may not be vetted by the component manufacturer for technical accuracy. I say 'may not' because I do not know, but he does not mention it. He probably just says what he wants to say and sees that as a virtue. It is both a luxury and kind of a red flag insofar as published reviewers are subject to a publisher's guidelines and code of ethics. Nowadays, anyone can create YouTube videos.

Reviewers do get paid, but not for an endorsement and not for promoting a product. Legitimate reviewers do not take payola. However, saying (constantly) one does not get paid may appeal to those that like to think reviewers can be bought or to create that illusion. The reasons that "professional" reviewers get paid is very simple. The reviewer sells his review to a publisher. They are paid so their publisher owns the rights to the review product which they publish. It appears that Synaxis is self-published. Synaxis may get paid (generate income) in virtue of monetizing his Web presence by attracting viewers to YouTube, but I don't know that. He stands in contrast with several other YouTube 'commentators' who have products to sell you.

Synaxis usually appears with multiple audio components positioned around him and he has a particular component to talk about. These components come from somewhere and they likely come from manufacturers or distributors who want exposure for their products. So in that sense he acts like a reviewer. However estalished publishers have very strict rules (which they publish) that define the reviewer-manufacturer relationship. So there is another contrast with the mainstream audio press.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My answer to the OP is that yes I can evaluate the sound of components neither of which are my personal cup of tea. In fact, not being emotionally connected to the sound of a particular component makes the evaluation process easier, and not harder.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Is it possible to properly evaluate a product if one doesn't Like how it sounds?

Is it all about taste?

Thanks

Its all about money in the end

 

[tima]

Its all about money in the end

No - In the end it's about good sound and the enjoyment of music.

 

[andromedaaudio]

No - In the end it's about good sound and the enjoyment of music.

Not if you re running a magazine and have to pay the bills every month

 

[exupgh12]

I’m not aware of any other hobby where personal preferences are held with almost religious zeal. For example, I race motorcycles and I don’t see Kawasaki guys arguing with Ducati Guy’s and vice versa as to whose technology is best.

That’s because they all look into Honda\B.M.W\Aprilia\Suzuki….

Plenty of hobbies where personal preference are held as religions, sports like football, guns, coffee, wine just to name few.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I’m not aware of any other hobby where personal preferences are held with almost religious zeal. For example, I race motorcycles and I don’t see Kawasaki guys arguing with Ducati Guy’s and vice versa as to whose technology is best.

In europe they do .

Marc Marquez Speaks Out on Leaving Honda for Ducati

Marc Marquez, an eight-time world champion, has moved from Repsol Honda to Gresini Ducati. This career move marks a big shift for Marquez, who has been synonymo

www.si.com

 

[andromedaaudio]

I’m not aware of any other hobby where personal preferences are held with almost religious zeal. For example, I race motorcycles and I don’t see Kawasaki guys arguing with Ducati Guy’s and vice versa as to whose technology is best.

Thats because motorbike racers speak with their lap times .
Unfortunately this is not possible in audio , but quit a few do try somewhat .....

like :

Look i have 20 + shiny machined boxes with a carbon finish connected with a golden garden hose ..... i have more boxes better sound then you

 

[Synaxis]

Reviewers do get paid, but not for an endorsement and not for promoting a product. Legitimate reviewers do not take payola. However, saying (constantly) one does not get paid may appeal to those that like to think reviewers can be bought or to create that illusion.

Hi Tima - I have no issue with you but would like to correct your post. I've enjoyed reading your reviews.

Almost every single hifi company and distributor tells a different story.

We have the guy in the great NW demanding free product and expensive dinners to agree to a review, we have the one claiming they are "not in this full tine" who will ONLY cover a room in a show if they are paid $600, we have the "big guy" collecting $1500 to talk about product at a show and demanding two of everything be sent to him so he can sell off one immediately, we have the record guru (the one who can't tell the difference between an analog recorded record and a digital one) playing the same games, and we have the story as told about RH on this forum the other day.

There are no secrets in this industry and people claiming things are kosher are either on the take or completely oblivious on purpose.

I'll choose to believe the real life examples as shared by those forced to pay as its the same story over and over and over.

It's interesting to watch the old guard squirm now that we are all wise to the way they've operated. They still continue to act like they are somehow more vaunted and gatekeepers when no one cares what they say except themselves in their own minds.

 

[Ted Denney III]

Thats because motorbike racers speak with their lap times .
Unfortunately this is not possible in audio , but quit a few do try somewhat .....

like :

Look i have 20 + shiny machined boxes with a carbon finish connected with a golden garden hose ..... i have more boxes better sound then you

I own a lot of motorcycles. The track bikes boil down to numbers but, ironically, the bikes I subjectively enjoy most on a public road would absolutely suck on track. And then I have bikes that straddle the difference. When an objective outcome is desired, like a low lap time, objective considerations take precedence. But when just trying to have fun, like listening to our stereos or going for a ride in the country, subjective criteria become paramount.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I own a lot of motorcycles. The track bikes boil down to numbers but, ironically, the bikes I subjectively enjoy most on a public road would absolutely suck on track. And then I have bikes that straddle the difference. When an objective outcome is desired, like a low lap time, objective considerations take precedence. But when just trying to have fun, like listening to our stereos or going for a ride in the country, subjective criteria become paramount.

I just bought a BMW XR 1000 last month best of both worlds .

@ Synaxis i think you nailed it there

 

[andromedaaudio]

Hi Tima - I have no issue with you but would like to correct your post. I've enjoyed reading your reviews.

Almost every single hifi company and distributor tells a different story.

We have the guy in the great NW demanding free product and expensive dinners to agree to a review, we have the one claiming they are "not in this full tine" who will ONLY cover a room in a show if they are paid $600, we have the "big guy" collecting $1500 to talk about product at a show and demanding two of everything be sent to him so he can sell off one immediately, we have the record guru (the one who can't tell the difference between an analog recorded record and a digital one) playing the same games, and we have the story as told about RH on this forum the other day.

There are no secrets in this industry and people claiming things are kosher are either on the take or completely oblivious on purpose.

I'll choose to believe the real life examples as shared by those forced to pay as its the same story over and over and over.

It's interesting to watch the old guard squirm now that we are all wise to the way they've operated. They still continue to act like they are somehow more vaunted and gatekeepers when no one cares what they say except themselves in their own minds.

Thats why i always say,..... go to as many dealers / shows as you can and make up your own mind.
Instead of relying on a third party to make decisions for you.

@ Synaxis ...subscribed to your channel

 

[exupgh12]

I own a lot of motorcycles. The track bikes boil down to numbers but, ironically, the bikes I subjectively enjoy most on a public road would absolutely suck on track. And then I have bikes that straddle the difference. When an objective outcome is desired, like a low lap time, objective considerations take precedence. But when just trying to have fun, like listening to our stereos or going for a ride in the country, subjective criteria become paramount.

I gave up riding a long time ago. It turns out that listening to music is a much safer hobby than riding motorcycles.

I hear you, Ted, and I couldn’t agree more.

 

[Ted Denney III]

I gave up riding a long time ago. It turns out that listening to music is a much safer hobby than riding motorcycles.

I hear you, Ted, and I couldn’t agree more.

21 years ago, I almost get hit by a stripper who loses control of her Camaro on a canyon road. I go down, and I’m thinking, “****, brand new BMW.” I stand up, and my left leg buckles sideways into my right leg at the knee: torn ACL in two, ruptured medial meniscus disc, fractured tibia at the plateau. Three surgeries and six months later, I’m back on bikes, this time a Ducati 999. Put several thousand miles on it, and then I get rear-ended; lying on the ground waiting for the ambulance. I’m praying, “Jesus, please, I haven’t recovered from the last accident.” Fast-forward to the hospital, nurse comes and tells me it’s only soft tissue damage. My hip is not broken. I didn’t ride for 20 years. Fast-forward to Nashville, Tennessee from Newport Beach, California three years ago, and I buy my first bike again. Now I’ve got about 40,000 miles under my seat, no issues, because there aren’t a lot of cars out in the countryside. Turns out dragging your knee around the corner isn’t the problem; automobiles are the problem. Well, and being 20 years younger, lol.

 

[exupgh12]

21 years ago, I almost get hit by a stripper who loses control of her Camaro on a canyon road. I go down, and I’m thinking, “Fuck, brand new BMW.” I stand up, and my left leg buckles sideways into my right leg at the knee: torn ACL in two, ruptured medial meniscus disc, fractured tibia at the plateau. Three surgeries and six months later, I’m back on bikes, this time a Ducati 999. Put several thousand miles on it, and then I get rear-ended; lying on the ground waiting for the ambulance. I’m praying, “Jesus, please, I haven’t recovered from the last accident.” Fast-forward to the hospital, nurse comes and tells me it’s only soft tissue damage. My hip is not broken. I didn’t ride for 20 years. Fast-forward to Nashville, Tennessee from Newport Beach, California three years ago, and I buy my first bike again. Now I’ve got about 40,000 miles under my seat, no issues, because there aren’t a lot of cars out in the countryside. Turns out dragging your knee around the corner isn’t the problem; automobiles are the problem. Well, and being 20 years younger, lol.

For me, it was a truck driver who failed to stop despite having a stop sign. Fortunately, I escaped with only minor injuries-just some bruises and a few dry blows.

We used to joke that motorcycle riders are simply riding from one accident to the next.

And yes, the biggest danger for motorcyclists on the road is often the other drivers that share the same road.

 

[Ted Denney III]

For me, it was a truck driver who failed to stop despite having a stop sign. Fortunately, I escaped with only minor injuries-just some bruises and a few dry blows.

We used to joke that motorcycle riders are simply riding from one accident to the next.

And yes, the biggest danger for motorcyclists on the road is often the other drivers that share the same road.

Well, Central Tennessee all the way to North Carolina along the Tennessee border is motorcycle Disneyland. If you love riding, then you know it’s the greatest drug ever invented—I just couldn’t do it in Southern California any longer, and those were only two of the accidents I shared with you. 10 years earlier, I was driven off a road on the Angeles Crest Highway and hitched a ride on a helicopter to the trauma center in Pasadena. Another time, I got hit by a car on the 55 freeway. And while it was always the other vehicle’s fault, an automobile, my mindset was very different in my 30s and early 40s than it is now at 60. And I actually ride faster now than I did then, and I was fast then. But the lack of cars in TN out in the twisty road countryside, and more accurate risk assessment and situational awareness on my part, means I’m able to have more fun with less risk. Much less risk.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Plenty of hobbies where personal preference are held as religions, sports like football, guns, coffee, wine just to name few.

I agree with Ted here. This hobby seems more contentious than the average hobby.

As one example I've read on-line off-roading forums where the registrants have in their signatures long list of specialty parts they've added to their SUVs -- like we have for audio components. They have strong discussions about the advantages and disadvantages of vehicles and parts. But I don't sense the level of self-righteousness or arrogance or misplaced ego I see from some audiophiles.

Do people on on-line off-roading forums have their egos wrapped up in their opinions about which shock absorber is "best"? I never sensed a religious zeal about preferences over electric winches.