Yes. The 111 monos. Just finished. Will consolidate thoughts and post. Overall, very impressive.
Is there a new What's Best Standard? FM Acoustics @KLIAV
- Thread starter John57
- Start date
Yes. The 111 monos. Just finished. Will consolidate thoughts and post. Overall, very impressive.
So will draft my notes here now...and then likely update this particular post as my thoughts settle on the FM111 monos. Overall:
1. Thank you. Touraj is gracious, generous with his time and advice. Fantastic and a both an industry expert with a long track record of excellent in his own business...as well as a tremendous ambassador for FMA. Most grateful for his time today.
2. Music:
- Bach Goldberg Variations: Glenn Gould 1983...piano solo
- Bach: Mass in B Minor - Netherlands Bach Society...choral
- Eva Cassidy: A'int No Sunshine...female vocals
- John Digweed: Live in Cordoba(CD1)...deep house
- Fink: Perfect Darkness...mix of electronic, acoustic, band
_____________________________
2 .Tonal qualities of the FMA 108 (heard in different system) and now in FM111 monos in my own system appear to be truly exceptional. It is my personal priority, and I liked what i heard.
3. FM also presents a surprisingly unvarnished and yet incredibly organic sound...again exceedingly rare.
_____________________________
Relative to the Gryphon Colosseum:
- Bach Piano: The piano tonality was surprisingly similar. I was quite pleased about this. FMA soundstage was ever so slightly more diffuse...but i CANNOT say which is 'correct'
- Bach Mass: The delineation of instruments on FMA was perhaps a touch better. Overall, I like the deep well of foundation that the Gryphon provides (potentially in the bass which we'll come back to)
- John Digweed: Bass...bass...bass. Here there was a marked difference. The Gryphon provided a Godzillian amount of control over a live-concert of deep house riffs that the FMA did not provide. With the FM 111 monos, I felt the subterranean work slipping away into extended vibrations, warbles I do not hear with Gryphon. With Gryphon, bass wacks and disappears immediately or fades steadily into background...as opposed to warbles away or bleeds into next wack. There is no question or doubt about each bass wack, any more than when you heard Middle C struck by Glenn Gould. There is control and precision in the bass with Gryphon.
Touraj did start changing cables to see...and believed (perhaps rightly so) that other adjustments, areas etc...might be revealed that could bring this all back to a well timed, tight presentation. Overall, his adjustments did start to work.
However, to my own way of thinking about this music, i really did prefer Gryphon's presentation of deep bass...not only for its bass thwacks on deep house, but also for its foundation in classical like Bach Mass in B Minor...it is a different dimension of realism which i have grown to appreciate now that I have it, and it is hard to miss it even if it is an 'error' of omission. not right not wrong, but my preference.
And of course, there are the 115 monos, the 411, the 711 and the ultimate 1811...and my instincts tell me that this could ultimately be solved by trying those
_____________________________
Initial Conclusion:
Exceptional tonality and surprisingly similar to the Gryphon Colosseum...was not necessarily expecting this. For someone whose priority is this purity of tonality...i cannot emphasize enough how well the FMA delivered today on purity of tone...truly exceptional in my experience. Very very special not only because of its purity, but also its suppleness, remarkable ease and its incredible dexterity and level of detail...and very importantly, its alacrity.
There 'might' be a thin layer of veneer removed with FMA. Emphasize might but i do think so...nothing that ever bothered me with Gryphon.
Bass needs re-looking at...the Gryphon's work in the subterranean areas is immense, powerful, controlled and like nothing i have yet to experience. It might not be 'fair' to ask the 111s to match the Gryphon where its forte here is well documented.
I intend to continue to reflect on FMA for some time. Definitely on a short list of perhaps 3 amps that rank up there for me (Boulder, Gryphon, FMA)...and from memory FMA edged out the Boulder where the Boulder's mids did not feel nearly as supple and organic as the Gryphon and FMA, thus, perhaps a shortlist of 2.
Certainly a great experience led by a great professional to whom I am most thankful for his time!
1. Thank you. Touraj is gracious, generous with his time and advice. Fantastic and a both an industry expert with a long track record of excellent in his own business...as well as a tremendous ambassador for FMA. Most grateful for his time today.
2. Music:
- Bach Goldberg Variations: Glenn Gould 1983...piano solo
- Bach: Mass in B Minor - Netherlands Bach Society...choral
- Eva Cassidy: A'int No Sunshine...female vocals
- John Digweed: Live in Cordoba(CD1)...deep house
- Fink: Perfect Darkness...mix of electronic, acoustic, band
_____________________________
2 .Tonal qualities of the FMA 108 (heard in different system) and now in FM111 monos in my own system appear to be truly exceptional. It is my personal priority, and I liked what i heard.
3. FM also presents a surprisingly unvarnished and yet incredibly organic sound...again exceedingly rare.
_____________________________
Relative to the Gryphon Colosseum:
- Bach Piano: The piano tonality was surprisingly similar. I was quite pleased about this. FMA soundstage was ever so slightly more diffuse...but i CANNOT say which is 'correct'
- Bach Mass: The delineation of instruments on FMA was perhaps a touch better. Overall, I like the deep well of foundation that the Gryphon provides (potentially in the bass which we'll come back to)
- John Digweed: Bass...bass...bass. Here there was a marked difference. The Gryphon provided a Godzillian amount of control over a live-concert of deep house riffs that the FMA did not provide. With the FM 111 monos, I felt the subterranean work slipping away into extended vibrations, warbles I do not hear with Gryphon. With Gryphon, bass wacks and disappears immediately or fades steadily into background...as opposed to warbles away or bleeds into next wack. There is no question or doubt about each bass wack, any more than when you heard Middle C struck by Glenn Gould. There is control and precision in the bass with Gryphon.
Touraj did start changing cables to see...and believed (perhaps rightly so) that other adjustments, areas etc...might be revealed that could bring this all back to a well timed, tight presentation. Overall, his adjustments did start to work.
However, to my own way of thinking about this music, i really did prefer Gryphon's presentation of deep bass...not only for its bass thwacks on deep house, but also for its foundation in classical like Bach Mass in B Minor...it is a different dimension of realism which i have grown to appreciate now that I have it, and it is hard to miss it even if it is an 'error' of omission. not right not wrong, but my preference.
And of course, there are the 115 monos, the 411, the 711 and the ultimate 1811...and my instincts tell me that this could ultimately be solved by trying those
_____________________________
Initial Conclusion:
Exceptional tonality and surprisingly similar to the Gryphon Colosseum...was not necessarily expecting this. For someone whose priority is this purity of tonality...i cannot emphasize enough how well the FMA delivered today on purity of tone...truly exceptional in my experience. Very very special not only because of its purity, but also its suppleness, remarkable ease and its incredible dexterity and level of detail...and very importantly, its alacrity.
There 'might' be a thin layer of veneer removed with FMA. Emphasize might but i do think so...nothing that ever bothered me with Gryphon.
Bass needs re-looking at...the Gryphon's work in the subterranean areas is immense, powerful, controlled and like nothing i have yet to experience. It might not be 'fair' to ask the 111s to match the Gryphon where its forte here is well documented.
I intend to continue to reflect on FMA for some time. Definitely on a short list of perhaps 3 amps that rank up there for me (Boulder, Gryphon, FMA)...and from memory FMA edged out the Boulder where the Boulder's mids did not feel nearly as supple and organic as the Gryphon and FMA, thus, perhaps a shortlist of 2.
Certainly a great experience led by a great professional to whom I am most thankful for his time!
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CJ GAT 2...we disconnected the TA Opus cables and used Touraj's cables preamp to amp and amp to speaker. Touraj had an FMA preamp with him but elected not to use it.
Nice write up Lloyd. Covered all the bases that are of interest to me
And had me scurrying to my cd rack to check whether i have John Digweed's Barcelona mix
Montreal, Brooklyn, Cordoba, Toronto....but no Barcelona
Will remedy asap
And had me scurrying to my cd rack to check whether i have John Digweed's Barcelona mix
Montreal, Brooklyn, Cordoba, Toronto....but no Barcelona
Will remedy asap
Take your time LL21. It took me years and years to decide. By the time I took the plunge, there were two models of the 268 already. There is the regular 268 and the 268C. Did you use the FMA forcelines during your evaluation? For my own preference, nothing worked as well as Forcelines with FMA electronics. That’s the reason in my all MasterBuilt cabled system, I retained the Forcelines between the 268C and all amplifiers.
Shoot...sorry! It WAS Cordoba. If you listen to the 1st track on 1st CD...that bass is powerful, deep rooted and needs to be well controlled by the amp.
Thanks...good to know!! I do not know what Touraj used, but given that he is the distributor and was speaking at length about how the FMAs use this 7mm pin, I suspect there is a good chance it was Forceline.
Thanks for reporting. Are you saying you removed the the OPUS MM2 IC and kept the OPUS MM2 speaker cable? Can I ask why you did not use the FMA preamplifier?
Hi Micro,
We removed the Opus MM2 IC and the Opus 5 speaker cable. We used Touraj's interconnect and speaker cables...as well as eventually one of his power cables for the Zanden DAC.
Regarding preamplifier, it was Touraj's call, and he did not seem to think it was necessary. Given his evident experience and expertise, I thought it proved to be a very good introduction and learning experience without creating too many variables. I recall your excellent advice about matching preamp/amp to truly understand what they are doing...and perhaps coming from a background where i have had matching preamp/amp only once in my life, I suppose it also was not on my radar screen of priorities. Perhaps a lesson for another day.
My concern was also the IC between DAC and premaplier - don't you a OPUS there?
IMHO probably swapping OPUS cables changes more that swapping amplifiers - but it is me!
Yes, we do. In the end, having had this system for many years in quite a stable form...and also played with a few different components over the years...including new cables...i can say that my instincts are strongly that the FMA is organic/supple in the mids and uppers...and that the 111 monos did not provide the monstrously solid bass of the Gryphon. I suspect that the FMA 411, 711 and 1811 as well as the 115 monos will be better in this regard...the question is how much better. Overall, an exceptionally good start to learning about a new brand (for me).
At the time, the Wilson X1/Grand SLAMMs. We now have the XLFs. Having returned to this post, I am glad we ended up with the Robert Kodas which are effectively a pure Class A purity of tone amp whose bass is remarkable in its power and suppleness and particularly is extension down below which exceeds the Gryphon Mephisto we used to use and was our reference for years.
Here is the best answer I can give:
1. I heard the FM 111 Monos (180 watts/4ohm) and they paled in comparison on bass to the Gryphon Mephistos (175 watts into 8 ohms/350ohms into 4ohms) in pure power and control and slam
2. I heard the Robert Kodas (235 watts Class A into 4ohms) and the Mephisto, and the Mephstio fell behind in articulation of bass, matched it in overall power, slam and lost again in all-out power and articulation down very very low. The only area Mephisto was more powerful was midbass...but interestingly, after many many many hours of listening, I am starting to wonder if it mght have had its midbass (in comparison and subjectively) tuned up ever so slightly. But that is so system dependent, it's a subjective thing and frankly something one can tune in any event with system setup.
On the above basis, I cannot say how the big reference FM amps compare. But I can say the FM111 does not compare in our system. But the FM111 is not the reference FM amp by some measure either.
Hi LL21,
Gryphon does have its own house-sound but is their new flagship poweramp series Apex available at your local Gryphon dealer?
gryphon-audio.dk
APEX is more than only an evolved Mephisto. It surpasses the Mephisto in every sonic aspects.
In Hong Kong the prices of APEX stereo & mono amps are more "reasonable" than the flagships of most European Hiend brands.
Worth your audition definitely.
Gryphon does have its own house-sound but is their new flagship poweramp series Apex available at your local Gryphon dealer?
Apex - Gryphon Audio
APEX The Pinnacle Main Menu Overview The Drive Eternal Beauty Features & Specifications Downloads Reviews Media Overview Since its introduction in 2022, Apex has been hailed as the finest power amplifier ever created. Critics and connoisseurs have universally praised its combination of...
gryphon-audio.dk
APEX is more than only an evolved Mephisto. It surpasses the Mephisto in every sonic aspects.
In Hong Kong the prices of APEX stereo & mono amps are more "reasonable" than the flagships of most European Hiend brands.
Worth your audition definitely.
