Is there any decent record cleaning machine in the <$500 range which operates like the VPI 16.5 ?

[tima]

Ron Resnick posed this question to me in the thread

System for Under US$10,000 MSRP

How can that possibly fit in the specified budget? Can I tell him you'll buy it for him? You can tell him anything you want, Ron. I responded to your choice. Regardless of cost, it wasn't a good one.

www.whatsbestforum.com

...

Serious question: is there any decent record cleaning machine in the <$500 range which operates like the VPI 16.5 (squirt liquid, rotates record, vacuumed up by a tube)?

Horizontal machines are primarily vacuums, where fluid is applied automatically or manually and the fluid is agitated on the platter by hand or by a brush held by the machine as the record is rotated by the machine. Then vacuum is applied to remove the fluid. Better models of these use a point-nozzle rather than a slot for their vacuum, such as those from Keith Monks and Loricraft.
Until the rise of ultrasonic cleaning, the horizontal machines held sway. To my knowledge, there have been no new horizontal vacuums come on the market in the last several years. Existing manufacturers continue to offer the same machines they have offered for some time now, with maybe form factor or cosmetic changes.

The latest offering I know for ~$450 with a motor is the Pro-Ject VC-S2. or here. Keith Monks and the Loricrafts are a good bit more expensive.

However there are manual options where the end-user turns the record, applies and agitates fluid and the machine does the vacuuming.

Perhaps the most famous of these is the Nitty Gritty. I owned their initial 1.0 basic model in the early 2000s. They have added automation to various models. Their Mini-Pro automatically rotates, wets, scrubs, and vacuum both sides of the record at the same time, msrp $1650. BUT, their original model 1.0 is still available for ~$475. The VPI 16.5 is similar but does have a noisey motor for turning the record along with a slotted vacuum. A fancy, nicer machine of this type is the Clearaudio Smart Matrix Silent for ~$2800.

An even more rudimentary version of the original Nitty Gritty is the Record Doctor VI for ~$300.

The issue, imo, with slotted vacuums is how the slot comes in contact with the record. On either side of the slot are 'lips' of various material. Nitty Gritty uses velvet. These lips contact the record surface. Any bit of particulate can be trapped in the material lips and thus dragged against the record as it turns. The lips wear out fairly quick and must be replaced. I cannot recommend slotted vacuums for that reason.

Cheaper yet is the Spin-Clean which holds the record horizontally in a bath and the user turns the record. Fluid is removed with a cloth, so no vacuum. ~$125.00

As mentioned in post #142 above, the Humminguru is a cheap ultrasonic cleaner for $350. I have not used it.

If people are interested in 'less expensive' record cleaners they are invited to post here or start another thread in the forum you are in: Record Cleaning and Related Topics .

 

[tima]

And then ... there is Dyson!

 

[Another Johnson]

I’ve owned at least one slot style horizontal vacuum style RCM since 1984. Sometimes more than one (when I had vinyl playback systems at multiple houses).

Specific models I’ve owned have been Nitty Gritty’s 2.5fi, and VPI’s HW17, HW16, HW16.5, and MW1. I seem to remember that I’d owned one or two others, but I can’t remember specifically which ones.

I’ve also dabbled in ultrasonics. After Michael Fremer acknowledged that the Kirmus worked, I bought one of them for badly curated used records.

I’ve read, and recommended Neil Antin’s book. I’ve skimmed countless threads about record cleaning on forums (like WBF).

I’ve listened to Harry Weisfeld’s adventures as VPI did R&D on the possibility of a USM (Harry told me that USMs were especially useful for thrift store record finds that were in bad shape). Note that this was 5+ years ago and VPI have not gone in the USM direction.

FWIW, my 40 years of using horizontal vacuum slot RCMs has been positive and I often suggest a used HW16.5 for people who want to get into record cleaning. I’ve never scratched a record with an RCM. I did ruin one in 1986 when I left the fluid on the vinyl turning as I was distracted by a 20 minute phone call (human error, not HW17 error). I’ve never had a problem with velvet lip life. I did have problems replacing lips on the Nitty Gritty, but replacing the slot/nozzle is a trivial task on a VPI.

I know MANY record lovers who are NOT OCD audiophiles, and the whole ritual of record cleaning does not appeal to them. RCMs and USMs both take up valuable space and require some care in use. My approach is to clean records “just in time.” I do not batch clean. I clean (both sides) on the way from the shelf to the platter. When I resleeve after play, I use a MoFi archival sleeve.

Obviously this is a topic that generates passionate reactions … it is another precious vinyl playback ritual to separate those who self identify as “in the know “ from the Cretans (like me). It’s similar to the cartridge set up passion.

I do consider cleaning to improve things, but my current MW1 suits my needs. And as for cartridge setup, I consider that critical too … up to a point. I could never get passionate enough to go to the extreme measures of many.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Tim,

Thank you very much for starting this thread!

It looks like the Pro-Ject VC-S2 picked up the mantle for this style of RCM from VPI HW-16.5 (which I had for 20+ years until I got the KL Audio (which is amazing, and which I love, and which everybody seems to love)).

I certainly will tell my friend about the Pro-Ject!

Thanks, again!

 

[Republicoftexas69]

And then ... there is Dyson!

View attachment 124510

I have used a similar device in addition to my Kirmuss US Cleaner. It is the Vinyl Vac: https://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Vac-33...E4TXp6jlKNdEv_OLEKMUQ2kofzGE1bmwaAhLUEALw_wcB

 

[Kingrex]

I don't use my vacuum anymore. I don't need it. I uses a wash method from the DIY Record thread. I don't need the ultrasonic. I have it so I use it. Brushes and the right chemicals and a spin clean for a final rinse to rid the chemicals works for me.

 

[Another Johnson]

This has probably been shared in another thread, but it is entertaining, and interesting. It is a panel discussion put together by Michael Fremer several years ago.

Getting back to the question of a good RCM for under $500, I think the answer is that there are some out there, and I expect they’re better than nothing, but once one becomes serious about the activity, the price of admission to good systems is higher, even on the used market.

FWIW, Roy Gandy and Ivor Tiefenbrun were both non believers at the outset. Ivor eventually acknowledged that RCMs had a legitimate place at the table.

My favorite Linn dealer was carrying the Okki Nokki last I knew. The Okki Nokki models were modestly priced. I’ve never tried one.

As I mentioned, I know many vinyl aficionados who are not audiophiles, and they uniformly view RCMs as more work than they’re worth. I disagree, but until the potential customer feels the need, an RCM is a tough sell.

 

[tima]

As I mentioned, I know many vinyl aficionados who are not audiophiles, and they uniformly view RCMs as more work than they’re worth. I disagree, but until the potential customer feels the need, an RCM is a tough sell.

Well ... you can always play your records until they get dirty, crackle and pop. Then buy new ones. That approach got us CDs.

 

[Another Johnson]

Well ... you can always play your records until they get dirty, crackle and pop. Then buy new ones. That approach got us CDs.

I’ve watched them for this. They aren’t bothered. You could pitch them a Sugar Cube and they’d probably bite before they created work for themselves with an RCM.

People set their own priorities for their time and money. Everyone doesn’t have “audiophile values.”

One more comment on the Nitty Gritty 2.5 Fi I owned for one system for 30 years … I’d forgotten, but after about 20 years, the reservoir started leaking. I took it apart and fixed it with an epoxy meant for fuel system repairs.

All of this discussion started when @Ron Resnick did not include an RCM for the $10k system. I understand why he didnt include it. I sold RCMs as part of my VPI franchise (out of my house) 40 years ago. They were a hard sell then, even with a good demo of their efficacy. TT, cartridge, phono preamp AND RCM all at first purchase? It is easy to see why streaming and CDs dominate.

FWIW, I would not be without my Kirmus (for restoration), and my MW1 as daily driver for cleaning.

FWIW#2, I was a very late adopter of the silver disks. I did not buy into CDs because the ticks and pops were not a problem with my vinyl. When I bought into CDs, around 1990, it was for the car. I’d installed a CD changer in the Lincoln Town Car (it was in the trunk), and I bought a compatible changer for the house. I had 25 or 30 six disk magazines, preloaded for road trips or parties. I wish I had that car back. I loved the look of that model. But the engines were flawed. A friend had been the chief engineer on that project, and when the smoke cleared, his mahogany and gold trimmed office on the Rotunda had vaporized into a windowless semi large, walk in closet.
I hate when that happens.