Is this obsessive?

[DaveyF]

Yesterday, one of my shall we say more " obsessive" a'phile friends, tells me that he has seen the light. He has decided to hardwire all of his gear together. From the tonearm wire to the phono stage to the preamp to the amp to the speakers! No ic's with plugs to degrade the sound and no speaker cables with plugs either. He will be soldering all of the connections from the cables to the various inputs, etc. Also, he will be doing away with all of the iec's on his gear and hardwiring the power cords directly to the boards. ( Obviously this guy has experience in electronics...actually a degree in electrical engineering). He tells me that IHO all of the connections that a'philes use are one of the biggest degrades to the sound. In his opinion, his modifications will lead to a bigger increase in SQ than anything else he could do. Personally, I would think the inconvenience in regards to the ability to move the system, or otherwise adjust it, would be a major negative, BUT I can see where he is coming from.
Anyone else thought about doing this? Or, is this just too obsessive?

 

[Bruce B]

yes, too obsessive.... and let's hope he has good fire insurance!

 

[GaryProtein]

I thought I was bad wanting "fuses" that were 6.25 x 32 mm silver cylinders.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Proof that you can have a degree in engineering and still believe in magic. If he has the skill to do all of that, he has the skill to measure the loss of signal and gain of noise on each side of every connection and know what he's actually dealing with. My guess is he hasn't done that. Am I right?

Tim

 

[Steve williams]

Yesterday, one of my shall we say more " obsessive" a'phile friends, tells me that he has seen the light. He has decided to hardwire all of his gear together. From the tonearm wire to the phono stage to the preamp to the amp to the speakers! No ic's with plugs to degrade the sound and no speaker cables with plugs either. He will be soldering all of the connections from the cables to the various inputs, etc. Also, he will be doing away with all of the iec's on his gear and hardwiring the power cords directly to the boards. ( Obviously this guy has experience in electronics...actually a degree in electrical engineering). He tells me that IHO all of the connections that a'philes use are one of the biggest degrades to the sound. In his opinion, his modifications will lead to a bigger increase in SQ than anything else he could do. Personally, I would think the inconvenience in regards to the ability to move the system, or otherwise adjust it, would be a major negative, BUT I can see where he is coming from.
Anyone else thought about doing this? Or, is this just too obsessive?

IIRC didn't good old Frank (fas42) do that with his system

 

[cjfrbw]

It actually makes sense, but it is not sensible.

 

[DaveyF]

IIRC didn't good old Frank (fas42) do that with his system

Steve, I'm not sure. But my friend has a very nice system to begin with...Vivid speakers, Basis TT and arm, Conrad Johnson amp and preamp. We're not talking about a Pano radio, like with our old friend Frank. So, this is a major undertaking and one that I suspect will be quite profound. I think it's a little crazy, BUT IF you know this guy, you would understand. To answer Tim's question, I'm sure you are right that he has not measured the connections for losses. But again, you have to know this guy...he's VERY VERY obsessive. Frankly ( pun intended) I am VERY curious to hear the results.

 

[microstrip]

Davey,

Basically your friend is replacing a sound signature with a different one. Some people will disagree, some will applaud. Some people prefer a solid fit pressure contact connection - do you remember the old WBT crimping plugs? - stating that solder has "bad" effect in cables, others dislike the metal-to-metal connections. Many manufacturers avoid extra connectors inside their equipment, creating pieces that are very cumbersome to service, and put solder in every connection.

If your friend is not wanting to swap equipment or cables, and is not affected by the devaluation of equipment because he is modifying it, why not?

 

[audioarcher]

Obsessive? Sure. I guess if your happy with the wire you have and don't plan on making many changes it would most likely be an improvement. Especially if you can minimize your cable length. Not sure how it is more of a fire hazard except if you need to unplug something that is on fire. In that case the circuit breaker would likely trip anyway. He did not mention bypassing the fuses which would definitely be more of a fire hazard.

 

[DaveyF]

Sean, I don't see how it would be more of a fire hazard either. AFAIK, my friend is not going to bypass the fuses. He believes that the cabling that he currently uses ( I cannot remember which) is not the issue...instead he is convinced that the hardwiring of the whole system will result in far less loss than the various sundry connectors that are in use. I believe he is planning on using a simple heavy duty power cord for the power cord connections. By bypassing the iec and wiring directly to the board he believes any difference in power cord type will be mitigated. Basically the same thinking for the other cables.

 

[Bruce B]

Sean, I don't see how it would be more of a fire hazard either. .

isn't equipment/cables UL listed? There are codes and manufacturers have to abide by them. If something happens, no insurance is going to pay anything.

the biggest PITA piece of equipment I had was my CAT pre that have a captive cable to the PS.

 

[DaveyF]

isn't equipment/cables UL listed? There are codes and manufacturers have to abide by them. If something happens, no insurance is going to pay anything.

the biggest PITA piece of equipment I had was my CAT pre that have a captive cable to the PS.

I'm pretty sure the power cable will be UL listed. I don't see how hardwiring a UL listed power cord to the board would invalidate the UL requirement? BTW, I do agree that the captive cable for the CAT power supply is a PITA. Talking to Ken about this, he strongly believes that any connection at that point would degrade the sound...therefore the captive cable.

 

[audioarcher]

isn't equipment/cables UL listed? There are codes and manufacturers have to abide by them. If something happens, no insurance is going to pay anything.

the biggest PITA piece of equipment I had was my CAT pre that have a captive cable to the PS.

That's true. The insurance co. will use that as an excuse not to pay out if their investigators are smart enough to figure that out. Has anyone had that happen to them?

 

[PeterA]

It does not seem practical for most of us to consider this. But I have read that those who try it really like the results. Raul (Audiogon) had done it and describes wonderful results. I could see hardwiring everything at one end so each component has one captive cable. Then there would still be the flexibility to unplug and move things around. Resale values will suffer, assuming he will disclose what he has done to sellers. I wonder how manufactures would react if a component needs to go back for repair, or is he capable of doing his own repairs?

The biggest sonic benefit may be realized at the tiny signal end: cartridge to arm cable straight to phono input. I did read a thread once in which someone tested five different types of solder for sonic variations.

 

[mep]

Yesterday, one of my shall we say more " obsessive" a'phile friends, tells me that he has seen the light. He has decided to hardwire all of his gear together. From the tonearm wire to the phono stage to the preamp to the amp to the speakers! No ic's with plugs to degrade the sound and no speaker cables with plugs either. He will be soldering all of the connections from the cables to the various inputs, etc. Also, he will be doing away with all of the iec's on his gear and hardwiring the power cords directly to the boards. ( Obviously this guy has experience in electronics...actually a degree in electrical engineering). He tells me that IHO all of the connections that a'philes use are one of the biggest degrades to the sound. In his opinion, his modifications will lead to a bigger increase in SQ than anything else he could do. Personally, I would think the inconvenience in regards to the ability to move the system, or otherwise adjust it, would be a major negative, BUT I can see where he is coming from.
Anyone else thought about doing this? Or, is this just too obsessive?

So when did Frank move from Australia to your neck of the woods?

 

[mep]

isn't equipment/cables UL listed? There are codes and manufacturers have to abide by them. If something happens, no insurance is going to pay anything.

the biggest PITA piece of equipment I had was my CAT pre that have a captive cable to the PS.

Everybody I know who has ever owned a CAT preamp has hated that damn hardwired umbilical cord including me. With regards to captive power cords, this guy appears to be going back to the future. Remember when all power cords used to be captive? Once power cords gained their own "component" status, off we went into the land of IEC connectors.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Obsessive? Sure. I guess if your happy with the wire you have and don't plan on making many changes it would most likely be an improvement. Especially if you can minimize your cable length. Not sure how it is more of a fire hazard except if you need to unplug something that is on fire. In that case the circuit breaker would likely trip anyway. He did not mention bypassing the fuses which would definitely be more of a fire hazard.

I agree why is it a hazard? Power cords are another story.

And no I don't find it obsessive. How many hardwire their tone arms? That's a pretty nice improvement so why shouldn't the rest of the system benefit in the same way? I can certainly hear when the connectors start to oxidize-roughly a month after cleaning.

 

[kach22i]

.............do you remember the old WBT crimping plugs? - stating that solder has "bad" effect in cables, others dislike the metal-to-metal connections.

This guy better love the sound of solder, that's all I'm saying.

I predict that he's going to have some hum and grounding issues.

 

[mep]

Davey,

Basically your friend is replacing a sound signature with a different one. Some people will disagree, some will applaud. Some people prefer a solid fit pressure contact connection - do you remember the old WBT crimping plugs? - stating that solder has "bad" effect in cables, others dislike the metal-to-metal connections. Many manufacturers avoid extra connectors inside their equipment, creating pieces that are very cumbersome to service, and put solder in every connection.



If your friend is not wanting to swap equipment or cables, and is not affected by the devaluation of equipment because he is modifying it, why not?

Audiophiles complain about everything. If you sent them all to heaven they would complain the angels sing off key and everyone is too nice.

 

[MylesBAstor]

This guy better love the sound of solder, that's all I'm saying.

I predict that he's going to have some hum and grounding issues.

And there's not solder there now in the signal path? In fact there will be less after removing the connection. And I don't see any hum issues; if anything less.