Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?

[metaphacts]

Hi Metaphacts,
I hope you had an excellent Thanksgiving! I have not heard your strategic analysis of why Wilson audio has won so many of those RMAF RHIPA awards, but here's a differing perspective. (Also discussed here: https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/bunch-of-audio-“experts”-select-their-best-products-fun-what-do-you-think.21666/)

The reason you won those awards is not because you are best. Certainly you are very, very good for what you do, but this is a subjective hobby.

High end audio products are "experience goods". I know the feelings of our measurement members and friends will be hurt, but measuring gear doesn't provide an answer of what's best or better; you can test it in a lab all you want like you can with a vacuum cleaner or a washer, but that evaluation effort will be meaningless. This is because, all gear manufacturers despite manufacturing products, in effect, provide an experience.

What this means is that audio fans can't know in advance if the experience audio manufacturers are selling is the one they will enjoy. Many of us have been so disappointed by spending our precious time and money, traveling or putting into our system, or god-forbid - buying, these over-hyped products.

Thus audio journalists and online chatter from fans is much more relevant in marketing high end audio. There are few, if any, objective claims to audio excellence, and audio fans disagree on what's good, as we all know too well. So consumer choices reflect tastes, not verifiable or justified differences in quality of the experience!

The Wilson sonic signature has been around for a long time. Your finishes are excellent. The workmanship is outstanding. Most people are excellent (except for that Snooty Peter McGrath). There is a strong support network.

Coming back to the awards, the "audio journalists" who voted for Wilson audio share your taste. Their readers like your taste, and it gets reinforced by the "audio journalists". And people online chat about what they like, which is echoed by other fans (social proof).

So those guys’ collection of past experiences with Wilson provides a context, a lens, and a background to evaluate all else via Wilson.

Yet if reviewers who prefer the Magico sonic signature such as valin (although the great Yoda has awakened and has now positively reviewed a Voxativ and has hinted that the Magnepan 30.7 is better than the Magico M3!), Hartley, Astor, and Fritz were participating instead of the wilson reviewers like Jason Victor Serinunios, Atkinson, Fremer, Ken Kessler, Roy "Stop rambling on and on, and say it! Get to the FUKKING point already!) Gregory, Magico would have swept all of the categories, including the cheapest category for their new a3! (And guys like Herb Reichert , Steve Gutenberg, Art Dudley, and sometimes, the Stupendously Talented Jonathan valin prefer something else altogether.)

Coke cola is also very popular and tastes great. But is it the best?

Don't celebrate too hard. Keep improving your designs slowly but surely. Tastes are pretty crystallized...If you make any radical changes to your sonic signature, you will lose customers. The next Magico S class model, or someone else, which will have many virtues of Magico and Wilson, will come around and eat your lunch...

Happy Thanksgiving Caesar!

I'll leave the tilting at windmills and building of strawmen to you. You are much more skilled at them than I could ever be.

 

[Lee]

That is not entirely correct, IMO. The Focal inverted metal dome has a bright and hard/ringing nature, regardless of what speaker it was inserted into. And yes, I heard it sounding that way in all speakers that it was utilized in. Including all the Wilson's. Therefore, I guess you could state that it was poorly designed and /or a failure!

Correct.

 

[Lee]

To date, the only Wilson I really liked was the original X1 Grand SLAMM. With 95db sensitivity and an easy load driven by a good SET it was really one of the best box s peaker sounds I have heard.

The newer models are much better imho.

 

[metaphacts]

Correct.

There is a high frequency resonance in the focal titanium tweeter cone (look where the voice coil is located on that driver) drivers that needed to be notched out. Do that and all bets are off wrt fatigue issues.

 

[Al M.]

What this means is that audio fans can't know in advance if the experience audio manufacturers are selling is the one they will enjoy. Many of us have been so disappointed by spending our precious time and money, traveling or putting into our system, or god-forbid - buying, these over-hyped products.

Your posts seem to be born out of deep frustration. I have no regrets about any of my audio purchases -- I only bought stuff that I enjoyed or knew that I would enjoy, or where risk was low. I also don't regret the time spent gathering my experiences. I did not buy over-hyped products either.

 

[DaveyF]

There is a high frequency resonance in the focal titanium tweeter cone (look where the voice coil is located on that driver) drivers that needed to be notched out. Do that and all bets are off wrt fatigue issues.

Did Wilson do as you have recommended, because if they did, it must have made no difference!

 

[KeithR]

Sorry, IMHO it seems you are only able to see the tip of the iceberg and not the basic ADN of the Wilson speakers. I have owned many Wilson speakers since the Wilson WATT Puupy system V and the basics of articulation , liveliness and detailed micro dynamics are still there in an evolutionary design.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the Watt Puppy 5 and 6 pretty much sucked. They were bright as hell and had a mid-bass bump that was easy to discern. I actually chose the Sophia 1 over the W/P 7 even because it wasn't bright and far more coherent. I wasn't the only one.

The reason Lamm was such a common pairing early on is because it tamed the bright tweeter. BAT also worked well.

Dave Wilson famously spent time with the Vienna Philharmonic and his speakers changed tonality drastically- i wonder why

 

[tima]

+1

Little I have heard in speaker design evolution has sounded as inconsistent as has Wilson’s switch from a metal dome tweeter to a soft dome tweeter. I think it changed the entire “house” sound of the company’s products.

Moreso than Magico's switch from wood to aluminum cabinets?

I like the current silk dome tweeter, but I did not the find the focal tweeter (eg, Sasha 1) to yield a wholly different speaker.

 

[tima]

Wilson won't convince guys like Valin about accuracy/ being true to the recording no matter how hard they try. Why not focus your marketing efforts on your strengths - that you have the speaker that recreates the emotions of a live show at home. Emotion is what sells the speakers. Seems like a very dumb move by a supposed marketing genius.

The most popular products are hardly what anybody would consider to be the best there are. They are most popular because they are simply everywhere; dealers carry them and reviewers revere them. People can hear them fairly easily. And one can find reviews on the social sites like this one. But those of us who don't share those tastes are told by the elites and audio journalists that the rest of us are listening to badly unrealistic-sounding gear. Or your gear sucks because some guys picked Wilson for all of their awards.

Some of your posts, when you get on a roll, are quite amusing. I'm thinking you like writing them - it's fun to roil and fluff the surface, isn't it? Sucessful audio manufacturers, stupid rich people and "audio journalists" are such easy targets. Keep at it!

He buried his words
In a people's park
And went looking for a speaker
To cheek and spark

 

[ack]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the Watt Puppy 5 and 6 pretty much sucked. They were bright as hell and had a mid-bass bump that was easy to discern. I actually chose the Sophia 1 over the W/P 7 even because it wasn't bright and far more coherent. I wasn't the only one.

The reason Lamm was such a common pairing early on is because it tamed the bright tweeter. BAT also worked well.

Dave Wilson famously spent time with the Vienna Philharmonic and his speakers changed tonality drastically- i wonder why

+1000

 

[morricab]

The newer models are much better imho.

If you say so...my ears don’t agree...

 

[morricab]

Your posts seem to be born out of deep frustration. I have no regrets about any of my audio purchases -- I only bought stuff that I enjoyed or knew that I would enjoy, or where risk was low. I also don't regret the time spent gathering my experiences. I did not buy over-hyped products either.

LOL...whatever...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the Watt Puppy 5 and 6 pretty much sucked. They were bright as hell and had a mid-bass bump that was easy to discern. I actually chose the Sophia 1 over the W/P 7 even because it wasn't bright and far more coherent. I wasn't the only one.

The reason Lamm was such a common pairing early on is because it tamed the bright tweeter. BAT also worked well.

Dave Wilson famously spent time with the Vienna Philharmonic and his speakers changed tonality drastically- i wonder why

The Original X1 though was a whole lot better. I hated the sound of the WP5.

 

[C.A.P]

There is a high frequency resonance in the focal titanium tweeter cone (look where the voice coil is located on that driver) drivers that needed to be notched out. Do that and all bets are off wrt fatigue issues.

Are you refering to a Notch "FILTER" on the x over ? Having worked with the Focal tweeter AND LIKE it ! I know it is capable of amazing detail with out fatigue !

 

[caesar]

Happy Thanksgiving Caesar!

I'll leave the tilting at windmills and building of strawmen to you. You are much more skilled at them than I could ever be.

HI Metaphacts,

Thanks for the kind words. Kind of surprised that you lack the curiosity to fully understand why Wilson is successful. Nevertheless, congratulations on your contributions to Wilson Audio success.

Have a great life!

 

[caesar]

+1

The soft dome tweeter that Wilson now uses is a huge upswing in SQ over the old Metal dome.
...

Amen,
That was the most important sonic change that WA made, as their speakers were pretty much unlistenable for most people. And let's not forget how some guys in the media, like "worthless to the audio fans" robery harley excoriated wilson for using that "old" technology.

Of course, sonically, that tweeter change differentiated wilsons from magicos, which tend to put emphasis on upper midrange, lower treble. And now the new sasha puppy will further differentiate the speaker with a more robust bottom end than the magico in the same price category.

 

[caesar]

IMHO Wilson Audio, besides consistency in their type of sound along the years, also listen to the market trends and to audiophile preferences. It is one of the few speaker brands that can sound excellent with digital, showing it at its best since the 90's. My audiophile friends who own Wilson Audio listen mostly to CDs and streaming, curiously those owning to an alternative brand listen to LPs (one has tape) and complain digital music does not sound good at all ...

Why do you think that is?

I personally think it's a great thing. But many wilson detractors claim it is a lack of ultimate transparency.

 

[caesar]

Your posts seem to be born out of deep frustration. I have no regrets about any of my audio purchases -- I only bought stuff that I enjoyed or knew that I would enjoy, or where risk was low. I also don't regret the time spent gathering my experiences. I did not buy over-hyped products either.

HI Al,
I have 4 high end system, including an MBL system with a lot of amplifier power that makes it sound like a giant high-efficiency, and a zu audio system that on emotional level destroys any box speaker I have ever heard. I also have some killer planars and some 2 ways, a number of headphones, and, of course, the sound systems in my cars are top notch. So I am quite happy.

But it took me nearly 15 years to get it to sound the way I like it. That is the frustrating part. A big part is confusion and obfuscation created by the audio journalists. Finding options other than your wilsons and audio researches is challenging, as that's what everyone is talking about, but I think they suck. Auditioning components is time consuming. It takes time away from work (and one needs money to feed this hobby!), family, other hobbies, friends, etc....

 

[caesar]

Some of your posts, when you get on a roll, are quite amusing. I'm thinking you like writing them - it's fun to roil and fluff the surface, isn't it? Sucessful audio manufacturers, stupid rich people and "audio journalists" are such easy targets. Keep at it!

He buried his words
In a people's park
And went looking for a speaker
To cheek and spark

Hi Tima,
Thanks for the poetry. Yet very few people are addressing the ideas. I'm usually very busy as is, but this is the holiday season... gotta grab some brunch with some friends and family... I'll have more to say, don't you worry...

 

[tima]

Hi Tima,
Thanks for the poetry.

It was Joni's idea... ;-)

 

[Al M.]

HI Al,
I have 4 high end system, including an MBL system with a lot of amplifier power that makes it sound like a giant high-efficiency, and a zu audio system that on emotional level destroys any box speaker I have ever heard. I also have some killer planars and some 2 ways, a number of headphones, and, of course, the sound systems in my cars are top notch. So I am quite happy.

But it took me nearly 15 years to get it to sound the way I like it. That is the frustrating part. A big part is confusion and obfuscation created by the audio journalists. Finding options other than your wilsons and audio researches is challenging, as that's what everyone is talking about, but I think they suck. Auditioning components is time consuming. It takes time away from work (and one needs money to feed this hobby!), family, other hobbies, friends, etc....

Caesar, glad to hear you are happy with your sound, I am too -- extremely happy in fact. I don't feel misled by audio journalists, but then I usually didn't have interest, or the money, to buy what everyone was talking about. If I was interested in a product from reviews, I usually researched listener feedback on the web, which tended to be helpful. Maybe I got lucky, but I have no regrets about any buying decisions. In some crucial cases I was able to listen at home (or for earlier system variants at least in the store), and sometimes the dealer discouraged the latest hot thing.

When it comes to getting the sound that I want, the most frustrating and time consuming part was not gear choices, but getting set-up and room acoustics right. The latter took me years, and I'm not done yet. Upstairs I have boxes of ceiling diffusers waiting to be installed -- after I have finalized speaker set-up which my latest successful experiment has gotten me close to.