Jbl 4367
- Thread starter dallasjustice
- Start date
Your prejudice against bass reflex is seriously misguided. There are plenty of great speakers that use bass reflex designs with none of the issues you imagine them to have. Group delay / phase can be fixed by DSP or it can be reduced to insignificance by the designer. The driver is key and needs to have certain characteristics. There are examples of poor implementation of every type of design imaginable... that does not make the design bad, it makes the implementation bad. Big difference...
I'm guessing your prejudice stems from hearing drivers with heavy cones and high inductance motors in a bass reflex design playing up too high in the frequency range. This will sound horrible. BUT, a properly designed BR cab CAN keep up with a horn.
FWIW a friend has AG Unos, not the newest ones, and the bass section of those speakers is a horrible joke on the owner. Just because some companies have put out horrible bass sections that seem like an afterthought doesn't mean it HAS to be this way. The JBL woofer and BR design is going to keep up with any horn out there.
That looks good... when you have all seats occupied try pointing the right speaker at the left person's head and vice versa, i.e. more toe. I don't particularly like this arrangement better, but it works better for sharing the sweet spot.
I am sure there are better implementations, but essentially you are using a column of resonating air to gain a few dB extension, Personally I prefer sealed box designs and front loaded bass horns, but obviously their compromise is size.
Keith.
That's not all the vibrating column of air does... it reduces the need for excursion, which reduces distortion. This reduction in excursion is VERY significant, usually many times less cone motion is required for the same SPL vs a sealed box. A properly designed BR cab has a huge advantage there...
Then use more drivers ,it is not real bass just resonating air one half cycle delayed.
Keith.
You'll still get the same advantage with more drivers. And you're definitely wrong about the port output, we don't perceive bass the same way and the phase is not as important as you'd think below 60 Hz or so.
But hey, I guess you know more than Andrew Jones (TADs are all ported), JM Labs, Wilson, etc... Look at all those ports on the worlds best speakers!
I don't "imagine" as I've actually heard them. For their type, yes... And especially the TAD Ref 1, it is the world's best dynamic loudspeaker. Best drivers, best design, best sound. It is THE holy grail of dynamic loudspeakers.
Keith,
All speaker designs exhibit comprises. There's no perfect bass design. I have owned sealed box bass cabinet speakers. There are serious compromises made with those designs too. I don't plan on listening to these speakers full range. I do agree that DSP can correct some of the group delay one might have with a port. I use subs to help eliminate the room from the bass equation. Since I crossover well above the port tuning frequency, I can't hear the port effect, if any. There may not be any. I just don't know. Maybe that's something I could investigate later, but I'm not interested in that so much now.
Sealed bass cabinets tend to produce very non-dynamic bass. With a large sealed bass cabinet design speaker, I could even get the woofers to bottom out even with the exact same 80hz crossover I'm now using when playing super dynamic tracks.
If you posted already, I apologize for missing it but I'm wondering if the new JBLs will be permanent replacements for the Vivids? I've always been partial to the high end JBLs.
I actually like the idea of 2-way horn system ... The way horns (essentially mechanical transformers) "couple" the drivers to the air results in dramatically reduced excursion thus afford a larger frequency range for one driver.. 800 Hz and even lower to above 20 KHz is more than possible. IN these JBL the control of directivity with varying frequency is superb. Few if any non-horn speakers (as well as horn) match those.
I wrote aboutt he experience that I had a few years ago with a JBL horn. My prejudices went full tilt and I attributed the glorious sound I heard to the selection of music ( Small Jazz and small Classical Quartets) They were JBL D6600 I believe. The dealer, in NYC, carries those, Magico, Kef ,etc. Ido however believe that many audiophile horn contraption require a huge room for the different drivers beam to coincide... This 2-way by JBL is likely to be great sounding with superb imaging in close field. I need to audition these.
I wrote aboutt he experience that I had a few years ago with a JBL horn. My prejudices went full tilt and I attributed the glorious sound I heard to the selection of music ( Small Jazz and small Classical Quartets) They were JBL D6600 I believe. The dealer, in NYC, carries those, Magico, Kef ,etc. Ido however believe that many audiophile horn contraption require a huge room for the different drivers beam to coincide... This 2-way by JBL is likely to be great sounding with superb imaging in close field. I need to audition these.
I am not being particularly critical of the JBLs as you say every design is compromised to a degree, I perfectly well understand why JBL chose to mate horn loaded mids with a bass reflex design, crossing to subs above the port frequency seems eminently sensible.
Keith
I like the $8 Harbor-Freight dollies under the $15k speakers. Perhaps some of those IsoAcoustic stands would give a nice improvement.
The crossover has some cheap parts on it. I bet replacing them with some higher quality ones would make the speaker even more intimate for women singers, and reach a little deeper into finesse. It wouldn't much time at all, just a choice to spend $200 or $2000 on capacitors (resistors are cheap). They're the same caps I had on a pair of my speakers, and replacing them was nice.
BTW, I like the minimalism in the room, despite all the absorbs, it looks clean. (minus a small piles of cord droppings in the corner)
The crossover has some cheap parts on it. I bet replacing them with some higher quality ones would make the speaker even more intimate for women singers, and reach a little deeper into finesse. It wouldn't much time at all, just a choice to spend $200 or $2000 on capacitors (resistors are cheap). They're the same caps I had on a pair of my speakers, and replacing them was nice.
BTW, I like the minimalism in the room, despite all the absorbs, it looks clean. (minus a small piles of cord droppings in the corner)
Yes. I bet my system is the best sounding system in the world using H dolly speaker stands; Quite an accomplishment indeed.
I know folks in Japan like to swap out parts on the JBL crossovers. I'm not a big believer in all that. I'm a system guy all the way. The parts bin never impressed me since nobody, ever, seems to be able to demonstrate how these supposedly better caps make the sound coming out of the speaker any different, much less better.
I know folks in Japan like to swap out parts on the JBL crossovers. I'm not a big believer in all that. I'm a system guy all the way. The parts bin never impressed me since nobody, ever, seems to be able to demonstrate how these supposedly better caps make the sound coming out of the speaker any different, much less better.
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