Just read the Fremer review of the Ypsilon Hyperion...interesting

[morricab]

Ron,

Please note that I am not able to say anything about Jacon Heilbrun reasons for not comparing the units - I only referred to MY opinions that I will address in this post.

IMHO direct comparisons 99% of the time only show the compatibility of the equipment being tested with systems. As you know I am very critic of such shoot-outs for my personnel use. The be sincere, I think that the listening tests you carried at Mike were very interesting and enjoyable for you, but not very meaningful to your future system at all. You did listen to the amplifiers with a preamplifier that is very different from yours, probably your opinions would be very different if would have used Lamm or Vac preamplfiers - yes, I know Mike disagrees! and your speakers are very different from Mike ones.

May I suggest we should forget about the style and focus on content? Although I am a not native english reader I think I manage to understand pretty well what JH means with his words. Words must be understood inserted in the review that is filled with references to concrete aspects of recordings. Surely any one not appreciating the recordings JH refers will not understand them - as I share most of his musical preferences and recording labels I feel at home with his reviews. Nice to see we agree that he is effective at describing what he is hearing - unfortunately I can not say the same about 90% of the people who write about sound quality. BTW, for me reviews are mostly a source of entertainment and information, not judgment or ranking.

I always need a significantly long time to have an opinion on equipment - and we can see Jacob Heilbrunn is always very careful to identify components that stayed for significant time from those who made occasional stays. His systems are evolutionary, but not changing every month. Just as an example of my views, as I want to listen to the Lamm M1.2 REF in proper conditions according to my bizarre own private rules I am getting a Lamm L2REF next week.

And yes, surely we friendly agree and disagree a lot - this is a subjective hobby on a crazy subject, it can be expected. But IMHO we must focus on the best of it, not in a crusade against those that think differently.

Well, I see direct comparison (something I practiced as a reviewer...even to the point of leveling the output of devices under test to within 1db whenever possible) as one of the most useful tools a reviewer can have. Relying solely on aural memory will not suffice and comparisions, as well as long term listening impressions, will tell the reader more about what can be expected from a given device. For sure, this is context dependent and as a result all review information will be somewhat limited in usefulness but without comparison testing that usefulness is diluted even further.

I don't have an issue with JH's use of unusual vocabulary...this is his right as long as these words are used correctly as a native speaker would use them and not an "approximate" fits because he was trying to look sophisticated. Compared to Srajan on 6 moons he is not particularly pretentious. I do have an issue with what I view as a lack of feeling he is doing sincere reviews and what seems to me like a lack of "meat" to the review. Compare to MF or particularly Martin Colloms or classic HP and it becomes obvious what I mean.

 

[microstrip]

I don't think I have actually made it through a single review the JH has written...I found them to be of little value in terms of the meat of his descriptions.

I think he writes about high-end and international politics, never saw an article of him about cooking.

As I stated, as he usually lists opinions referring to half a dozen specific recordings we can easily get for me they are much more meaningful and solid than the usual verbiage about our own views of "life sound". As always YMMV.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I found Fremer’s review to be pretty easy to interpret: previously he found the VTL Siegfried II to sound just a shade on the tube side of the sonic dividing line between tube and solid-state, and he found the darTZeel NBH-458 to stand right on that neutral line. In this review I think he is concluding that the Ypsilon falls between the Siegfried II and the neutral dividing line.

 

[morricab]

I found Fremer’s review to be pretty easy to interpret: previously he found the VTL Siegfried II to sound just a shade on the tube side of the sonic dividing line between tube and solid-state, and he found the darTZeel NBH-458 to stand right on that neutral line. In this review I think he is concluding that the Ypsilon falls between the Siegfried II and the neutral dividing line.

Or that line has shifted to where the dart is now slightly on the analytical side of "neutral" (if this could even be clearly defined) and that the Ypsilon is perhaps an equal measure from "neutral" the other way. I think MF is realizing that the dart is not as musically gifted as some other options out there (he struggled somewhat with the ML3 signature too but it was further in the tube direction so he had an easier time getting off that hook). Based on his comments, it seems that the Hyperion really hit the sweet spot between resolution/detail/power and musicality. Maybe an amp for you to seriously consider?

 

[morricab]

I think he writes about high-end and international politics, never saw an article of him about cooking.

As I stated, as he usually lists opinions referring to half a dozen specific recordings we can easily get for me they are much more meaningful and solid than the usual verbiage about our own views of "life sound". As always YMMV.

Its funny because I usually don't find the descripitions of how this or that recording sounds to be at all useful. A good critic should be able to take what he/she hears across a spectrum of recordings and distill this into the essence of what they are hearing as a contribution from the device under test. The flowery description of so and so's bow on the strings evoking angels from heaven is not a meaningful critique, IMO. This is what makes a Martin Colloms or MF review somewhat useful, along with direct comparisions to other gear and their generalized contribution to the sound character.

You do agree that a given piece of gear will impart the same basic character regardless of the recording? Depending on whether or not that character is frequency dependent it may impact some recordings more than others but it will still be there. This is why when i was reviewing I used a very wide range of recordings in terms of musical content and recording quality. Live vs. studio as well. Even self-made (violin and violin with piano).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Or that line has shifted to where the dart is now slightly on the analytical side of "neutral" (if this could even be clearly defined) and that the Ypsilon is perhaps an equal measure from "neutral" the other way. I think MF is realizing that the dart is not as musically gifted as some other options out there . . .

I think that is a tortured interpretation of a clear and straightforward review. I think you are trying hard to be negative on the darTZeel NBH-458.

 

[BMCG]

I think that is a tortured interpretation of a clear and straightforward review. I think you are trying hard to be negative on the darTZeel NBH-458.

Well put Ron....concur with your interpretation

 

[morricab]

I think that is a tortured and “fake news” interpretation of a clear and straightforward review. I think you are trying hard to be negative on the darTZeel NBH-458.

Ron, first let me say that I find this a rather offensive thing to say to me because I have never, ever tried to post anything that I did not think was true or an honest opinion. By saying this, you are trying to undermine my credibility on this forum and I think that is really undeserved from you. By stating this you are accusing me of putting out dishonest information and/or opinions for some nefarious purpose... I am doing nothing of the sort. My saying that perhaps in MF's mind the dart moves to the analytical side of neutral is no better or worse than your saying you found it to sound "dry" compared to the VAC and especially the Lamm. You were (unfairly, IMO) criticized by some for this word choice because of its connotations but you called it (at least in the report) as you heard it. Some could have (and a few did) viewed that word dry as also a push from true neutrality towards the analytical side and the VAC and Lamm just on the other side...I didn't criticize your comments or call them tortured or "fake news", in fact it sounded rather truthful and informative. Even if I was negative about the dart (my opinions on amplification are well known), why do you feel the need to defend it's honor like it was a human? People criticize product on here all the time...why would you single out what I thought MF MIGHT think about the dart now that he has heard the Hyperion??

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Brad,

I apologize for offending you. I did not intend to undermine your credibility.

I deleted “fake news” from my original post. I am sorry I used that pejorative term.

I don’t know how a review of a later product (Hyperion) could cause a reviewer (Fremer) to change (move across a sonic line) his careful analysis of an earlier reviewed product (darTZeel 458) which he has owned since the original review for many years.

For me, at Mike’s, the 458s were a matter of first impression, not the intimate familiarity Fremer has cultivated with them for several years.

I do feel that your posts tend to be anti-solid-state, which I personally have no issue with, but I don’t think you should be surprised that a dogmatic view occasionally will attract some push-back.

I was pretty prejudiced against solid-state myself, and I’m not breaking my arm patting myself on the back for my new-found open-mindedness, but I wonder if you had heard at Mike’s what I heard at Mike’s if you would have allowed yourself to change your view on the 458.

 

[morricab]

Dear Brad,

I apologize for offending you. I did not intend to undermine your credibility.

I deleted “fake news” from my original post. I am sorry I used that pejorative term.

I don’t know how a review of a later product (Hyperion) could cause a reviewer (Fremer) to change (move across a sonic line) his careful analysis of an earlier reviewed product (darTZeel 458) which he has owned since the original review for many years.

For me, at Mike’s, the 458s were a matter of first impression, not the intimate familiarity Fremer has cultivated with them for several years.

I do feel that your posts tend to be anti-solid-state, which I personally have no issue with, but I don’t think you should be surprised that a dogmatic view occasionally will attract some push-back.

I was pretty prejudiced against solid-state myself, and I’m not breaking my arm patting myself on the back for my new-found open-mindedness, but I wonder if you had heard at Mike’s what I heard at Mike’s if you would have allowed yourself to change your view on the 458.

Thanks Ron, appreciated.

As to changing views, well people are changing them all the time...often without even realizing it. I think MF, back in his Musical Fidelity phase, would not have regarded the Hyperions so positively. The lines have been slowly shifting for some time I think...

Understood that you don't have long term impressions and I was not even challenging you on your comments. What I was doing was more an interpretation of someone else's impressions (MFs). It might have been way off...or not but without MF to comment I guess we would only know if MF suddenly pops up with Hyperions as his reference amps...not that this is likely I admit.

I am not nearly as anti-solid-state as you seem to believe. For many years my reference amplifier was a hybrid (Sphinx Project 14) and then for many years it was a reverse hybrid (KR Audio is all SS except the output tubes). In more recent years I had a couple of other hybrids (Einstein integrated and NAT Symbiosis SE) before going fully over to all tube SET. To this day, I have been impressed with the sound I hear from Ypsilon hybrids (Aelius 2, Hyperion and Phaeton). I think the Phaeton is especially good for the money. I do think that the top tube preamps I have heard are superior to the best SS ones I have heard (still haven't heard Robert Koda to disprove that notion). I also think that with a compatible speaker a SET is the best amplification choice, over PP tubes or pure SS. A couple of hybrids are good challengers though as are some OTLs.

It is true that I have not heard a single, high powered all SS amplifier that can deliver lifelike sound in the way I hear with good SET...and it is because of this observation that I stay with SET. That bit of relative "dry" you reported is what I hear in all too many even highly priced and highly touted SS amps and that residual I cannot live with...call it the princess and the pea syndrome...

Regarding Mike's system, I can only say that perhaps in isolation I would not notice anything disturbing with the darts...however, once the comparisons would commence with the VAC and Lamm I would probably go "ahhh" and that would be that.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, don’t tell my GF, but I’ve been on the lookout for a gen-u-ine princess, you sound like the man I need to talk to .

 

[morricab]

Brad, don’t tell my GF, but I’ve been on the lookout for a gen-u-ine princess, you sound like the man I need to talk to .

Oh, I have two of them at home...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hey, the ultimate, and invariable, upgrade .

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, do you have any experience with the Ypsilon SET 100 hybrids monos?

They don’t have the power of the Hyperions, I believe 100-120W Class A, is the older (ten years?) design, but is still the Ypsilon flagship amp (certainly pricier than the Hyperion).

I heard them at my old dealer back in the mid/late 00s, and a brief home demo, and they remain an absolute fave of mine, with transparency and air to die for.

Do they still stand tall a decade on?

 

[morricab]

Brad, do you have any experience with the Ypsilon SET 100 hybrids monos?

They don’t have the power of the Hyperions, I believe 100-120W Class A, is the older (ten years?) design, but is still the Ypsilon flagship amp (certainly pricier than the Hyperion).

I heard them at my old dealer back in the mid/late 00s, and a brief home demo, and they remain an absolute fave of mine, with transparency and air to die for.

Do they still stand tall a decade on?

No I have not heard this amplifier so it is no possible for me to say how it stood 10 years ago or how it stands now. I can imagine though, once fully warmed up, that they are superb sounding overall. I did experiment with this technology (Single ended hybrid) when I had the NAT Symbiosis SE, which I found is in some ways great but ultimately a frustrating amplifier. I have now obviously gone back to all tube SET with Aries Cerat (but before that Wall Audio Opus M50 monos with NAT Plasma preamp and Ayon Crossfire III). Blue Circle Audio was the first I knew of that did this concept with their BC-2 monos that were well regarded. The big difference with the Ypsilon is size...they are 100KG each and have large power supplies and use transformer coupling (the NAT was all direct coupled) and even transformer output I think. My Symbiosis was also a quite large monster (70Kg).

 

[morricab]

No I have not heard this amplifier so it is no possible for me to say how it stood 10 years ago or how it stands now. I can imagine though, once fully warmed up, that they are superb sounding overall. I did experiment with this technology (Single ended hybrid) when I had the NAT Symbiosis SE, which I found is in some ways great but ultimately a frustrating amplifier. I have now obviously gone back to all tube SET with Aries Cerat (but before that Wall Audio Opus M50 monos with NAT Plasma preamp and Ayon Crossfire III). Blue Circle Audio was the first I knew of that did this concept with their BC-2 monos that were well regarded. The big difference with the Ypsilon is size...they are 100KG each and have large power supplies and use transformer coupling (the NAT was all direct coupled) and even transformer output I think. My Symbiosis was also a quite large monster (70Kg).

Correction, the SET 100 is not transformer coupled on the output.

 

[microstrip]

Brad, do you have any experience with the Ypsilon SET 100 hybrids monos?

They don’t have the power of the Hyperions, I believe 100-120W Class A, is the older (ten years?) design, but is still the Ypsilon flagship amp (certainly pricier than the Hyperion).

I heard them at my old dealer back in the mid/late 00s, and a brief home demo, and they remain an absolute fave of mine, with transparency and air to die for.

Do they still stand tall a decade on?

Although they are an old model, they have been upgraded along the years - for example, see http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-new-visit-from-ypsilon/ or http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-ypsilon-visit-from-athens/

 

[morricab]

Although they are an old model, they have been upgraded along the years - for example, see http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-new-visit-from-ypsilon/ or http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-ypsilon-visit-from-athens/

Yes, the version reviewed by Constantine Soo in Dagogo, according to Mr. Soo, used a 66lb (30KG!) output transformer and the current description of the SET 100 Ultimate says the output is direct coupled. The weight of both somehow stayed the same...perhaps Mr. Soo was incorrect (there are some very large chokes used that could have been mistaken by the reviewer)? Unclear, but I would be interested in hearing these beasts.