KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search
- Thread starter KeithR
- Start date
Bongiorno wasn't attempting to make his final amp sound "tube-like." He was simply designing for his idea of the most musically faithfull amplifier, with a conviction that solid state is his route to it. I agree, hybrids rarely achieve their theoretical synergy. 540w in this case, from massed push-pull tubes are impractical, so for the Hailey in Keith's house, it's going to be SS or nothing. When you formed your opinion of the Ampzilla 2000 were you listening to the original or the "Second Edition?" The 2nd Ed specifically addressed the resolution limits noted even by people who loved the original.
Phil
Yeah, ok but that's the part that is really a mystery to me. Why stay dedicated to it if it complicates mating an appropriate amp? He has clearly been listening to Phil that he can match it with any amp...my experience with TVCs is that it is not that simple and a good active preamp will drive an amp more appropriately in a lot of circumstances. The results are a lot like what has been described.
That said, according to Stereophile, the YG speakers are running about 3 db less sensitive than spec'd. Does Keith listen loud?
That is interesting, and I consider 3dB less sensitive than specified to be a material difference in sensitivity.
He is trying to optimize for the speaker. I am sure if Keith finds out that Nagra or AR pre with AR or Luxman amp run the YG better than some other more expensive (or less) with the music first, he will eventually replace it. Unless he thinks music first is the world's best preamp and should be the core of his system. It is not difficult to replace it either for someone who can buy a YG Hailey
I think they were the original ones...this was probably 15 years ago or so. I personally don't think massed tubes sounds very good. If you go push/pull tube better to have just 2 devices per channel (same goes for SS). A big Class AB push/pull triode like the Chinese Jolida Music Envoy (200 watts with 2 x 211 per mono in Class AB1) will almost certainly sound better than a PP amp with a bunch of KT whatevers. It can also drive speakers like the YGs. The Aries Cerat Concero 65s would drive that speaker with ease as well...and its 65 watts of SET...you should have heard what the 25 watt baby brother Genus did on a pair of 83db Boenicke W5s...shocking.
The best sounding hybrids I have heard are the Sphinx Project amps and the NAT Symbiosis SE I had (it was even a single ended hybrid with only one huge MOSFET on the output stage per channel)...if you let it warm up for 2 hours...it was almost psychedelically good then.
Yes indeed...it means double the power to reach the same SPL. An 84db speaker needs 2 watts to reach the same SPL as an 87db using 1 watt.
I tend to orient around the electronics, as I find them one of the main contributors to synthetic sound, then go for speakers that fit. Thus SETs and horns...because I have found SETs and good tube preamps and good tube sources to have the least artifice. Then to get the most means high sensitivity speakers.
I never said to anyone that a TVC can be matched with *any* amp. But it can be matched with many, and certainly with one that will work for Keith. The limiting factor isn't the TVC itself as much as the source device driving the amp via the TVC. But in this case we know the the TVC was not causal to the sonic deficiencies. Anyway, Keith is committed to the TVC for several reasons he can explain himself.
BTW I don't have religion about this. I have a TVC in one system and an active preamp in another. And I have run active preamps in both, and TVCs in both at various times in the past. But I recognize and appreciate the advantages of TVCs.
Phil
There are extremely few sensitivity speakers that are complete sounding at uber level, and almost none of them are commercial at YG level. In US I doubt anything exists at that level in the high sensitivity world today unless the person is in the DIY community
That's fair. I think TVCs done right are great volume controls...for an active preamp but that's just been my experience...I will always have a top notch tube preamp in my system or an integrated with essentially the same...
Yeah, ,this has been more thoroughly embraced in Europe and Asia.
Tell Stereophile to get on it...our Soundstage...
They will get to it. My point is, I don't know of a review/measurements that show this discrepancy. I don't remember who, but a member here clearly stated there is a 3dB difference between the quoted sensitivity and a supposedly measured one by a magazine. And I'd love to see that.
It was on the Sonja 1.3.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/yg-acoustics-sonja-13-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/yg-acoustics-sonja-13-loudspeaker-measurements
It was me and I linked the Carmel 2 and Sonja 1.3, which both show a 3db lower sensitivity. You are right that a lot of companies are, shall we say, "optimistic" about their sensitivity (Audio Note being one of the more infamous with about a 6db discrepancy). Go back through this thread and find the links I posted and you will see for yourself...I don't make stuff up.
BTW, I was not commenting on the sound...only that they are even less sensitive than spec'd and could be why they seem rather hard(ish) to drive.
I tried out a Bespoke TVC for a few weeks at the same time as I was trying out the DeVore 0/96 monkeys. Loved it.
It was a beguiling combo especially when paired with SET. I was able to try it with two different SETs and some push pull EL34 and it made an incredibly strong case for itself in front of valve amps (though in the end I still have a personal preference for the gain structure of an active stage).But the Bespoke (as fabulous as it could be with other gear) when paired with some SS amps for me it made a bit less of a case for itself (very successful still in purely sonic terms but just a bit less so in ultimately expressing the character and energetic range of music). Perhaps (for some) there just needs to be a transition through valves somewhere. My mate runs the Bespoke through Bricasti monos (great SS that might also be a potential for Keith’s YGs) and there it works a complete treat so really there aren’t any absolute rules with matching this stuff, it either works or it doesn’t.
I am sure Keith will ultimately sort out the riddle of gear matching for his new speakers as part of the journey. It’s a fun part of the great work in progress.
Last edited:
A bit hesitant to wade into this one as the passive vs active issue may make the info moot... that said, to share an experience, the simaudio 870a stereo amp drives my Hailey 2.2s effortlessly. My preamp is Simaudio 850p now (previously the 740p) so this does provide obvious system synergy. My tonal balance imo and from those that have heard my current system is that it leans just a touch to the warm side of neutral. I hope to move to 860a v2 monoblocks soon.
Similar threads
