THXI would guess an even meatier sound, but that’s just my guess. The Blue Lace on my 4 point is meaty enough ?!!!
/ Jk
View attachment 118176
Koetsu
- Thread starter jadis
- Start date
Nice - then I’ll wait with excitement for your full report later on - Great
!
I would be interested to know what headshells members here are using with their Koetsus (assuming, of course, your setup has removeable headshells).
I have a Vermillion on an Orsonic AV-101b, and a Jade on an Ikeda IS-2T. The newer Jade (only has ~50 hours on it) does a few things better than the Vermillion - soundstage depth, drive, and clarity/focus of imaging.
But the Vermillion sounds a little more "relaxed" and is more amenable to long periods of listening. There are moments when I feel that the Jade's top end can be a little "harder" sounding compared to the Vermillion - relatively speaking, of course, these are after all Koetsus we are dealing with here.
Though there are clearly multiple variables here in play, I'm wondering if the headshell might be playing a part, or could play a part. It would also be cheapest part to "tune".
I have a Vermillion on an Orsonic AV-101b, and a Jade on an Ikeda IS-2T. The newer Jade (only has ~50 hours on it) does a few things better than the Vermillion - soundstage depth, drive, and clarity/focus of imaging.
But the Vermillion sounds a little more "relaxed" and is more amenable to long periods of listening. There are moments when I feel that the Jade's top end can be a little "harder" sounding compared to the Vermillion - relatively speaking, of course, these are after all Koetsus we are dealing with here.
Though there are clearly multiple variables here in play, I'm wondering if the headshell might be playing a part, or could play a part. It would also be cheapest part to "tune".
Hi there apropos,
I have been using the Jelco HS-30 for my Koetsu’s. As far as I know, Koetsu and Mr. Sugano San Sr, did have a close relationship with Jelco, having them made a special headshell similar to the HS-30, but with his specifications. On top of that headshell was the Koetsu logo, instead of the Jelco logo, but it looked very very similar. I think the Jelco HS-30 is the closest you can get these days, to have the sound that Mr. Sugano San was intended.
This said… I have used the Jelco HS-30 on my SL-1200G, with a modified heavier total mass tonearm, and the sound to me has been amazing. At the present time, I have only one Koetsu in my system, and that is the Blue Lace. It sits neatly under the Kuzma 4Point, on the Acoustic Signature Ascona NEO, and that is a completely different league, compare to the SL-1200G. But that’s another story.
Hope that helps !
/ Jk
I have been using the Jelco HS-30 for my Koetsu’s. As far as I know, Koetsu and Mr. Sugano San Sr, did have a close relationship with Jelco, having them made a special headshell similar to the HS-30, but with his specifications. On top of that headshell was the Koetsu logo, instead of the Jelco logo, but it looked very very similar. I think the Jelco HS-30 is the closest you can get these days, to have the sound that Mr. Sugano San was intended.
This said… I have used the Jelco HS-30 on my SL-1200G, with a modified heavier total mass tonearm, and the sound to me has been amazing. At the present time, I have only one Koetsu in my system, and that is the Blue Lace. It sits neatly under the Kuzma 4Point, on the Acoustic Signature Ascona NEO, and that is a completely different league, compare to the SL-1200G. But that’s another story.
Hope that helps
!/ Jk
Jelco HS-30 would be my first choice to go for a more relaxed sound as well.
Personally I prefer the substance and dynamic a Koetsu can get using a
Yamamoto HS-5S Titan headshell,
incl
Yamamoto TY-1 Titan finger
If your Tonarm is not very comfortable in fine tuning VTA and Azimuth, I would recommend
Acoustical Systems Arche headshell
For what ever reason I like the more light Magnesium Version of the Arche.
If your tonearm needs a little damping, Yamamoto or Arche are not for you, than HS30 might be the best choice, but also the
OMA Graphite Headshell
Does add some damping and helps to get a dynamic sound with less resonances.
Yamamoto S type and HS30 have good headshell leads already, for Arche or OMA I would recommend the
SAEC or Phasemation Triple C copper wires for Koetsu carts
Personally I prefer the substance and dynamic a Koetsu can get using a
Yamamoto HS-5S Titan headshell,
incl
Yamamoto TY-1 Titan finger
If your Tonarm is not very comfortable in fine tuning VTA and Azimuth, I would recommend
Acoustical Systems Arche headshell
For what ever reason I like the more light Magnesium Version of the Arche.
If your tonearm needs a little damping, Yamamoto or Arche are not for you, than HS30 might be the best choice, but also the
OMA Graphite Headshell
Does add some damping and helps to get a dynamic sound with less resonances.
Yamamoto S type and HS30 have good headshell leads already, for Arche or OMA I would recommend the
SAEC or Phasemation Triple C copper wires for Koetsu carts
I like the DS audio headshell with my Onyx Plat. Will probably get one for my Vermillion.
Thanks to all who have provided suggestions re: headshells, thank you.
I've done a little playing around with what I already have to see if a change of headshell might indeed help.
The Orsonic AV-101b was swapped from Vermillion to the Jade (which had the Ikeda IS-2T headshell previously). VTF was rebalanced to 1.9gm as the Jade is 4gm heavier. Process was: listening session with Jade/Ikeda, swap, then listening session with Jade/Orsonic.
Surprisingly, this made a difference, a greater difference, than I expected. The "hardness" in sound quality I previously mentioned earlier with the Jade is at least partly due to some congestion in the mids/upper mids. This is now relieved with the Orsonic.
This is very annoying as the Ikeda is a very visually attractive headshell, real audio jewellery. And the Orsonic is long out of production, and hard to track down.
For members out there considering a leap from the Vermillion to a stone body/platinum magnet model (especially given recent events), IMHO the stone body has:
- more extended HF - greater sense of atmosphere, more "air" around voices and instruments
- a greater sense of depth to the soundstage, and clear layering of this depth
- more accurate imaging - outlines are more defined, clearer, focussed
- more dynamics, a greater sense of speed - leading edges of transients are less blurred/sound faster
- suits "modern" music better
The Vermillion:
- has a more lush, intimate sound - you are closer to the performers
- does superbly for solo piano or small ensemble - "you are there" real-ness for these contexts; Julie London is in your lap!
- imparts a pleasing "warmth"/colouration - things are slightly "soft" focus; think 1980s era Playboy centrefold pictures, and you might get what I mean
- less well recorded or fatiguing recordings really shine
- suits older recordings better
Of course, YMMV and all that. In the future, when my Tigereye arrives, I plan to do a comparison between it and the Jade.
I've done a little playing around with what I already have to see if a change of headshell might indeed help.
The Orsonic AV-101b was swapped from Vermillion to the Jade (which had the Ikeda IS-2T headshell previously). VTF was rebalanced to 1.9gm as the Jade is 4gm heavier. Process was: listening session with Jade/Ikeda, swap, then listening session with Jade/Orsonic.
Surprisingly, this made a difference, a greater difference, than I expected. The "hardness" in sound quality I previously mentioned earlier with the Jade is at least partly due to some congestion in the mids/upper mids. This is now relieved with the Orsonic.
This is very annoying as the Ikeda is a very visually attractive headshell, real audio jewellery. And the Orsonic is long out of production, and hard to track down.
For members out there considering a leap from the Vermillion to a stone body/platinum magnet model (especially given recent events), IMHO the stone body has:
- more extended HF - greater sense of atmosphere, more "air" around voices and instruments
- a greater sense of depth to the soundstage, and clear layering of this depth
- more accurate imaging - outlines are more defined, clearer, focussed
- more dynamics, a greater sense of speed - leading edges of transients are less blurred/sound faster
- suits "modern" music better
The Vermillion:
- has a more lush, intimate sound - you are closer to the performers
- does superbly for solo piano or small ensemble - "you are there" real-ness for these contexts; Julie London is in your lap!
- imparts a pleasing "warmth"/colouration - things are slightly "soft" focus; think 1980s era Playboy centrefold pictures, and you might get what I mean
- less well recorded or fatiguing recordings really shine
- suits older recordings better
Of course, YMMV and all that. In the future, when my Tigereye arrives, I plan to do a comparison between it and the Jade.
enjoy the comparison of the different stone body types! This is really enjoyable!
In my set up the Jade was more straight and neutral, at least more contemporary.
The Coral Stone was more warm and more close to the Urushi type of wood bodies.
TigerEye was more close to Coralstone, than to Jade, to my ears a well blended cart.
Looking forward to read more stone body comparisons!
I have Tigereye and Jasper, both have diamond cantilever. But the length is different. Jasper is longer.
The sound is different too. Tigereye is not as focused as Jasper. Jasper is more dynamic too. It can be due the difference in stone or difference in cantilever mechanism.
Left is Tigereye and right is Jasper
The sound is different too. Tigereye is not as focused as Jasper. Jasper is more dynamic too. It can be due the difference in stone or difference in cantilever mechanism.
Left is Tigereye and right is Jasper
Thank you for your reply. The rubber sheet mechanism cover is just there to isolate/protect? Would the fact that it is missing hurt the sound reproduction?
Mike (mulveling) had explained the role of the rubber in Post #1339. Just take a back read.
Is this really the situation? Sounds like I'm not able to get my Koetsu rebuild anymore...
Dear X,
Sorry for delayed reply.
Unfortunately now the KOETSU operation has suspended since the end of August when Mr. Sugano Jr., the proprietor, suddenly passed away.
Of course, I would like to maintain the KOETSU business, and have discussed it with surviving family, but no final decision is made between them. In October, I persuade his brother to keep the business, but now he hesitates to do so. Then I proposed that I succeed the business on behalf of the family, and wait for their response.
Therefore, now we cannot show the official repair option. Sorry…
I will show the update from time to time.
On the other hand, if you desire, I will ask the 3rd party engineer to repair it.
Best regards,
Makoto”
Dear X,
Sorry for delayed reply.
Unfortunately now the KOETSU operation has suspended since the end of August when Mr. Sugano Jr., the proprietor, suddenly passed away.
Of course, I would like to maintain the KOETSU business, and have discussed it with surviving family, but no final decision is made between them. In October, I persuade his brother to keep the business, but now he hesitates to do so. Then I proposed that I succeed the business on behalf of the family, and wait for their response.
Therefore, now we cannot show the official repair option. Sorry…
I will show the update from time to time.
On the other hand, if you desire, I will ask the 3rd party engineer to repair it.
Best regards,
Makoto”
In Tokyo HiFi Show last weekend, I met Aki san of DS Audio and asked him about the future of Koetsu. He knows the operation has stopped and it is not sure whether it will ever start again.
I suggested to Aki san that he buys the brand and continue the production. He is obviously a correct person to run Koetsu. His optical cartridge is different from Koetsu MC ones, so there is no conflict.
Aki san appeared to be interested but he said he didn’t know anyone in Koetsu. It has always been very secretive and does not socialise with other. But he will try to find out if it is possible to do something about it.
I suggested to Aki san that he buys the brand and continue the production. He is obviously a correct person to run Koetsu. His optical cartridge is different from Koetsu MC ones, so there is no conflict.
Aki san appeared to be interested but he said he didn’t know anyone in Koetsu. It has always been very secretive and does not socialise with other. But he will try to find out if it is possible to do something about it.
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