Kuzma SAFIR 9

Bonesy Jonesy

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Sorry WBF Members, after just checking my Kuzma 4point 11" arm, what I wrote regarding not having a PVC spacer between the main (largest / thickest) counter weight is not correct / true.

It should have the PVC spacer which is the thickest one (only one of this thickness) that comes with the 4Point 11" arm between the counterweight and the main tube assembly housing with the counterweight screwed up against this PVC spacer and the main tube assembly.

Apologies for any inconveniences caused (hopefully none) or wasting peoples time in checking, reading up etc.
Forgot to say.... As shown in 'jfrech's photo.
 

ShawnZH

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Finally my Safir 9 arrived yesterday. I replaced my 4P11 with Safir 9. I’m giving it a few days to break in, especially the 1.5m arm cable attached. I mounted the Lyra Etna SL onto the Safir in order to have a “side by side” comparison with Lyra Atlas SL on an Kuzma 4P9, though different turntables (Kuzma XLDC VS AF1), I believe it can still tell the differences in between the 2 arms.

I’ll report back.

B91427CA-0F31-4294-93AE-D65C4DCA000C.jpeg
 

thekong

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Hi Shawn, in addition to Safir vs 4P9, I would also be interested in your comment on XLDC vs AF1!

Thanks
 
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Ron Resnick

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Which cartridge is on the Graham tonearm?
 

shakti

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SOS

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Shawn what clamp are you using on the XL and how does it compare to Kuzma's own clamp? Does it screw down?
 

ShawnZH

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ShawnZH

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Shawn what clamp are you using on the XL and how does it compare to Kuzma's own clamp? Does it screw down?
It is a Harmonix TU-812MX clamp and it is not a screw-down.

It is a better clamp than the screw-down bronze clamp comes along with the turntable. I’ve also tried the black-wood clamp from Kuzma. A friend brought to my home for a try. That was an interesting clamp. Putting on that black-wood clamp, the sound can be a bit softened and the a bit more airy, a wooden sound if I may say. It appeared a bit artificial to my ears so I didn’t buy.

Another clamp I recently bought is also interesting, the Origin Live Gravity One. It is a very light clamp. In fact it is more a kind of vibration absorb more than a clamp. It is not expensive at all while it work very well on my AF1. With the hold-down of AF1, a clamp is less useful while the Gravity One may absorb some vibrations when the record is played.
 

Bonesy Jonesy

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It is a Harmonix TU-812MX clamp and it is not a screw-down.

It is a better clamp than the screw-down bronze clamp comes along with the turntable. I’ve also tried the black-wood clamp from Kuzma. A friend brought to my home for a try. That was an interesting clamp. Putting on that black-wood clamp, the sound can be a bit softened and the a bit more airy, a wooden sound if I may say. It appeared a bit artificial to my ears so I didn’t buy.

Another clamp I recently bought is also interesting, the Origin Live Gravity One. It is a very light clamp. In fact it is more a kind of vibration absorb more than a clamp. It is not expensive at all while it work very well on my AF1. With the hold-down of AF1, a clamp is less useful while the Gravity One may absorb some vibrations when the record is played.
Hi 'ShawnZH', have you tried / use the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp ?
Reason I ask is that people who have used the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp with the Kuzma Ebony Spindle Clamp say it is a very good combination which also includes Frank Kuzma's experience.
 

ShawnZH

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Hi 'ShawnZH', have you tried / use the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp ?
Reason I ask is that people who have used the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp with the Kuzma Ebony Spindle Clamp say it is a very good combination which also includes Frank Kuzma's experience.
I didn’t have the chance to use the Outer Ring Clamp, which seems to be a good way to press down the curved records. Nowadays, even new issued records can be sometimes curved while the 180g vinyls are not easy to handle once curved.
 

ShawnZH

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Hi Shawn, in addition to Safir vs 4P9, I would also be interested in your comment on XLDC vs AF1!

Thanks
The comparison between the 2 TTs should justify a full review. I try to put it as simple as possible.

My Kuzma XLDC is enhanced with the air float kit therefore it is about 40kg heavier than the normal XLDC. I also bought the anti-vibration board (platis 65), which I believe is a must for all Kuzma XLDC users. It dramatically enhance the performance of the TT.

AF1 is a pitch dark TT, silent, discreet while the music is a bit more refined. There’s an “inner-power” in the music produced by AF1. While the XLDC Air has a bit larger scale, not as quiet as AF1 but a bit more airy. If it is not easy to describe the differences of sound between the 2 TTs, just look at the 2 tables. The look of the 2 tables somehow already tells the subtle nuances. AF1 is more “mannered”, sophisticated while Kuzma XLDC air Is more bold and direct. I’d say XLDC is a touch more “analog”.

Yet, the pump of the XLDC air is something that one cannot ignore. Since it is supposed to pump up a very heavy platter, the pump has to work quite often. It means if you don’t have the space to put the pump far enough, you’ll be disturbed by the pump noise which comes every 3-5min to produce enough constant float power. The stock air tube is very long, about 30 meters.

If you don’t have enough distance to put away the pump, AF1 obviously is the choice to go for. If you can put the pump far enough, I may prefer Kuzma more. The standalone arm tower with VTA adjustment is also a big plus, very versatile and easy to use. Comparably, AF1 is less flexible in mounting arms. The right hand can only accept short mounting distance arms (mostly 9, 10 inch arms) while if you have an SME V type arm, you’ll find the armcable connection is very unfriendly. You have to stuff the cable into a small space underneath the TT. The left hand position can only accept 12 inch arms, which sometimes is also a limit. Imaging if you have the money to buy an SAT CF9 and a Safir 9, you have to make a hard choice.

Hope it explains a bit the differences.
 

Marcus

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Guys, I appreciate this clamp and XL Air vs AF1 debate but don’t you think it belongs to a more appropriate Kuzma XL DC or XL Air thread?
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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I didn’t have the chance to use the Outer Ring Clamp, which seems to be a good way to press down the curved records. Nowadays, even new issued records can be sometimes curved while the 180g vinyls are not easy to handle once curved.
I am thinking of either getting the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp (maybe the original heavier (2kg) one which was made for the XLDC and Stabi M and some Kuzma Dealers still have as NOS or the lighter (1.3kg) one which is for all Kuzma TTs) or an ORB DF Record Flattener.

Can't decide yet which one to get or which one to get first if I end up buying both. With the Kuzma Outer Ring I will also get the Kuzma Ebony Spindle Clamp. However the two Kuzma products are quite expensive (never seen the Outer Ring Clamp come on the market as a used item so will have to buy new) and I don't know how good the sonic benefits are vs the financial outlay ?
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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Guys, I appreciate this clamp and XL Air vs AF1 debate but don’t you think it belongs to a more appropriate Kuzma XL DC or XL Air thread?
Yes 'Marcus' you are right. These subjects should be discussed on another thread.
Apologies from my side for replying to posts that are not on the topic for this thread i.e. the Kuzma Safir9 !
 
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kodomo

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Hi 'ShawnZH', have you tried / use the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp ?
Reason I ask is that people who have used the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp with the Kuzma Ebony Spindle Clamp say it is a very good combination which also includes Frank Kuzma's experience.
I have that combo, hevay outer ring clamp and kuzma ebony spindle clamp. It is a good combination but for very low rider cartridges the first few seconds of a record may not be possible to play because of the outer ring.
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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I have that combo, hevay outer ring clamp and kuzma ebony spindle clamp. It is a good combination but for very low rider cartridges the first few seconds of a record may not be possible to play because of the outer ring.
Thank you 'kodomo' for your post. Much appreciated.

I wonder if my MSL Eminent Ex or possibly in the future an upgrade to a MSL Gold or Platinum Signature would have this problem with the cartridge fouling the outer ring clamp for the first track of a record ?

What sonic benefits have you heard with having the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp and Kuzma Ebony Spindle Clamp on your Kuzma Stabi M ?
 

SOS

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Personally, don't think I'd use the Kuzma outer-ring on my Stabi R / Safir / MSL Platinum set-up, just looking at the possible mishap to happen. Plus, I've used other outer rings and they work BUT are truly a pain to use. The screw down clamp when used with the red washer works fine IMHO
 
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Bonesy Jonesy

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Personally, don't think I'd use the Kuzma outer-ring on my Stabi R / Safir / MSL Platinum set-up, just looking at the possible mishap to happen. Plus, I've used other outer rings and they work BUT are truly a pain to use. The screw down clamp when used with the red washer works fine IMHO
Yes 'SOS' I use the quite heavy (weighs approx. 840g) original brass screw down spindle clamp with different thicknesses of neoprene washers (that I bought off Amazon as I don't have the original Kuzma spindle washers) underneath the record label and manage to press most records of different thicknesses and with varying degrees of warps to the platter.

Hence me as asking the WBF community what are the sonic benefits of using the Kuzma Outer Ring Clamp with the Ebony Spindle Clamp over the original brass screw down spindle clamp with a washer underneath the record label ?
 

thekong

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May 10, 2012
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https://www.yukimu-officialsite.com/cvs-1

I have moved my Safir onto the Rockport Capella II , which is the basic model with conventional bearing (non air bearing) and no vacuum hold down. I have always liked the idea of vacuum hold down, so when looking for way to further improved on the Capella, I have found the above vacuum platter mat. I have ordered one and will see what happens.
 

SOS

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@thekong yes vacuum hold down of the record is a far better option than an outter ring and clamp IMO. I used to own a Basis Debut table that had a vacuum system and thought it was a great way to keep records flat. Keep us posted how this retrofit vacuum system works out.
 
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