Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe

[Mike Lavigne]

have a feeling Lamm would be a perfect match with Box Furniture Racks. they aren't cheap, but nowhere near the "big guys" in expense. I believe MikeL is using their amp stands and could comment.

I did own 3 of the Box Furniture amp stands when I had my darTZeel HNB-108's and my Found Music Mercury Tube rectified 2a3 mono blocks back in 2011 before the MM7's and 458's. I sold the 2a3 monos, and then the 108 and now I have my 458's on them. I did sell the 3rd one to a friend.

if you are looking for a finely built, beautiful classy grounded rack I'd highly recommend them. price is reasonable.

 

[KeithR]

I have the "double-wide" rack in the same sapele finish, Mike. It really looks amazing.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have the "double-wide" rack in the same sapele finish, Mike. It really looks amazing.

I've been tempted to switch my main rack from the Adona to Box Furniture simply for the aesthetic issues. I'd need a custom built model due to the size (depth) of my TS-140 Herzan platform. since I use active isolation any grounded rack will 'sound' pretty much the same.

 

[PeterA]

Mike, by "grounded", do you mean a rack/platform which is spiked to the floor so that there is no movement?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, by "grounded", do you mean a rack/platform which is spiked to the floor so that there is no movement?

yes. essentially zero compliance built into the rack (stiff legs made of the proper materials)....so 'mass loading' grounds the rack to the floor (spiked). this allows for active isolation to work optimally.

if you go to the Herzan FAQ/tutorial it addresses this issue. they offer grounded tables designed for active platforms. quite industrial looking but tempting.

many racks are passively compliant in one way or another. then you add passive isolation footers of some sort. and you have multiple compliant products trying to harmonize. impossible to predict the result in that case.

active + grounded rack = predictable result + highest performance.

it is not 100% predicable that every piece of gear will sound it's best with resonance (virtually) eliminated.....but all gear I have tried has benefited from active isolation in my experience. taste and preferences vary.

 

[jfrech]

Christian,

Now that you've had the LP1 Sig for a bit...how much better vs the LP2.1 and how diff vs the Allnic? Curious to your thoughts..Thanks

 

[PeterA]

Christian,

Now that you've had the LP1 Sig for a bit...how much better vs the LP2.1 and how diff vs the Allnic? Curious to your thoughts..Thanks

Yes, and it will be interesting to see how the LP2.1 sounds in MadFloyd's system and compared to his SS Pass phono. Christian and Ian have the same amps and pre amp.

 

[jfrech]

Yes, and it will be interesting to see how the LP2.1 sounds in MadFloyd's system and compared to his SS Pass phono. Christian and Ian have the same amps and pre amp.

Hi Peter, I'd love to hear your impressions in madfloyd's system....

 

[rockitman]

Christian,

Now that you've had the LP1 Sig for a bit...how much better vs the LP2.1 and how diff vs the Allnic? Curious to your thoughts..Thanks

It's still breaking in. It takes all I got from the LP2.1 deluxe and refined it. It is bold, fast and dynamic with it's presentation of the music (Dare I say very natural ?). It reminds me of RTR tape more than my Allnic. The Allnic is a bit slower, more romantic sounding. I still need to do more back to back A/B comparo's. What I know for sure is there is room for both of these great phono stages in my system. The Allnic is different and good enough sounding that it deserves a place in my system too. More to come.

 

[Steve Williams]

If you have Lincoln Mayorga & Distinguished Colleagues Volume lll, get it out and play it on the LP1

I did last night and was blown away. The LP1 is simply amazing in what it can do

I know Ian was commenting that he had gain issues with the LP 2.1 but not sure why as I also use low output cartridges and never had that problem

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . What I know for sure is there is room for both of these great phono stages in my system. The Allnic is different and good enough sounding that it deserves a place in my system too. More to come.

This is very interesting to me. Would you really keep both phono stages and use one for some kinds of music and certain moods and the other for other kinds of music and other moods?

 

[ddk]

This is very interesting to me. Would you really keep both phono stages and use one for some kinds of music and certain moods and the other for other kinds of music and other moods?

It's no different than multiple tts, arms or cartridges, you accumulate a few along the way and you'll have your favorites that you listen to most.
david

 

[rockitman]

It's no different than multiple tts, arms or cartridges, you accumulate a few along the way and you'll have your favorites that you listen to most.
david

Thanks David...Yes Ron....David summed it up well.

 

[rockitman]

If you have Lincoln Mayorga & Distinguished Colleagues Volume lll, get it out and play it on the LP1

I did last night and was blown away. The LP1 is simply amazing in what it can do

I know Ian was commenting that he had gain issues with the LP 2.1 but not sure why as I also use low output cartridges and never had that problem

I would prefer more gain on MC1 input for .3mV carts...but it still works fine. You just have to turn the preamp volume up more than you are used too. MC1 for added gain works very well for .3mV too. I am currently using the higher gain MC1 input for my Lyra Olympos SL mono cart which is .15mV. It is a glorious match. Mono has never sounded better.

 

[Steve Williams]

My LP1 has 2 MC2 SUT's. I did not go with the low output MC1 SUT

 

[MadFloyd]

Yes, and it will be interesting to see how the LP2.1 sounds in MadFloyd's system and compared to his SS Pass phono. Christian and Ian have the same amps and pre amp.

The Lamm LP2.1 was shipped back to Lamm today, so sorry, no comparison... it did not work well in my system.

 

[rockitman]

The Lamm LP2.1 was shipped back to Lamm today, so sorry, no comparison... it did not work well in my system.

Was it the low gain ? I don't know what cart you are using but I was using a .3mV Koetsu Coralstone with the LP2.1 that has the lower gain (60dB) transformer. I needed to volume on my Pass XS pre set between -13 to -10 dB and that is close to the loudest I like to play music. The Pass XS is an attenuator from -89.5 dB to 0 dB. It can go to +9.5 dB which I assume is gain added after you hit 0. I found it a bit unsettling since I wasn't used to that. I have up to 74 dB on the Allnic where as the LP2.1 only has 60db of gain. I'm surprised you didn't like it. The LP1 has both the 60db and the 70db trannies. I definately need more than 60 for my .15mV Lyra.

 

[rockitman]

My LP1 has 2 MC2 SUT's. I did not go with the low output MC1 SUT

MC1 is high gain on my lp1 and mc2 low gain.

 

[MadFloyd]

Was it the low gain ? I don't know what cart you are using but I was using a .3mV Koetsu Coralstone with the LP2.1 that has the lower gain (60dB) transformer. I needed to volume on my Pass XS pre set between -13 to -10 dB and that is close to the loudest I like to play music. The Pass XS is an attenuator from -89.5 dB to 0 dB. It can go to +9.5 dB which I assume is gain added after you hit 0. I found it a bit unsettling since I wasn't used to that. I have up to 74 dB on the Allnic where as the LP2.1 only has 60db of gain. I'm surprised you didn't like it. The LP1 has both the 60db and the 70db trannies. I definately need more than 60 for my .15mV Lyra.

I was using an A95 cartridge which has only 0.20v output. So I had to go up to 0.0db or higher to achieve over 80db. That is unnerving for me. I could see myself accidentally switching to my digital input and forgetting to adjust the volume.

But the real reason was the sound. I started playing some classical LP I was familiar with and noted that the quality of sound was very good, but then I got to a passage with strings in the upper octaves and couldn't hear it. Puzzled, I played a few other test LPs and noticed other elements of the arrangements very subdued. I then played LPs with vocals and found female voices slightly muffled. At this point I checked for loading options on the LP2.1 and found none, so switched back to my Pass phono to make sure my ears weren't blocked. Nope, ears were fine, lots of extension and clarity with the Pass. Then I got my wife to listen and she confirmed what I was hearing.

So... the question is why was this happening? I have no idea. I'm pretty sure nobody would design it to sound this way. Cartridge choice? I doubt that since I've heard Vladimir likes Ortofon. Maybe my RCA interconnect between the Lamm and my preamp (I normally use XLRs everywhere so had to settle for what I had on hand...).

I remain puzzled.

I will say that this unit is built like a tank and is extremely heavy (in a good way) and super silent. I had to put my ear practically ON my tweeter to hear anything, even with the volume turn high. Very impressive. As was the midrange texture and overall quality of the sound. It just didn't work out for me.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I was using an A95 cartridge which has only 0.20v output. So I had to go up to 0.0db or higher to achieve over 80db. That is unnerving for me. I could see myself accidentally switching to my digital input and forgetting to adjust the volume.

But the real reason was the sound. I started playing some classical LP I was familiar with and noted that the quality of sound was very good, but then I got to a passage with strings in the upper octaves and couldn't hear it. Puzzled, I played a few other test LPs and noticed other elements of the arrangements very subdued. I then played LPs with vocals and found female voices slightly muffled. At this point I checked for loading options on the LP2.1 and found none, so switched back to my Pass phono to make sure my ears weren't blocked. Nope, ears were fine, lots of extension and clarity with the Pass. Then I got my wife to listen and she confirmed what I was hearing.

So... the question is why was this happening? I have no idea. I'm pretty sure nobody would design it to sound this way. Cartridge choice? I doubt that since I've heard Vladimir likes Ortofon. Maybe my RCA interconnect between the Lamm and my preamp (I normally use XLRs everywhere so had to settle for what I had on hand...).

I remain puzzled.

I will say that this unit is built like a tank and is extremely heavy (in a good way) and super silent. I had to put my ear practically ON my tweeter to hear anything, even with the volume turn high. Very impressive. As was the midrange texture and overall quality of the sound. It just didn't work out for me.

I recall 10 years ago (2001-2005) when I had the original Lamm LP2; which I used for 4 years as my reference. I liked it a lot.

however; it did not have the needed 'headroom' of gain to allow me to use some desired cartridges. it seemed like I was always pushing it to the limits. when used in it's designed performance envelope it was fine. it needed a cartridge with about .40v -.50v of gain to have enough headroom for the music to breathe. .30v was on the edge....

I had forgotten about that aspect of it.