Exactly. I hereby challenge someone with a Wadax system to make a video from Qobuz Of something more challenging to the system.— well recorded, multi instrument polyphonic, high dynamic range…
And then, in the Horizon system at Steve’s.
Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC
- Thread starter Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus
- Start date
And then, in the Horizon system at Steve’s.
Maybe I am in the minority but I don't see how anyone can draw any conclusions from listening to these videos. I am sure people can hear differences but so much information is lost in the process.
Well you can't draw conclusions even in real when you listen to a whole system and don't isolate. But people go to shows anyway
You can draw conclusions about the whole system synergy but not about what each component is contributing to the sound.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
David. I totally agree with you. Much against my better judgment I posted those two videos in reply to many requests I got to video the same song.
I place zero faith in making any determinations from YouTube video comparisons. So I’m with you
I am with you. The idea that making a recording using a mobile phone (what do the mic parts cost, a dollar?), perhaps even different models, of different hifi systems, in different rooms, from different distances, at different volumes in an effort to discern differences in a single component just makes no sense. The only way to make such comparisons meaningful, would be to (1) use very high quality mics on a proper stand with proper suspension, (2) feeding a very high quality mic preamp, (3) feeding a very high quality A>D converter, (4) to record the same basic system, (5) in a room that is reasonably well treated, (6) use a variety of types of music and (7) swap the subject components in and out. Perhaps that would allow one to discern differences over YouTube and accurately attribute them to the subject component, but even then you have other considerations such as impedance matching, cable matching, and system synergies that would bring into question the validity of any conclusions. To be clear, I appreciate that notwithstanding all of the above, folks may enjoy making and sharing such recordings, and that is totally fine. But drawing conclusions about any one component by comparing such videos seems hard to do.
HI, can we skip video benefit discussions? They have been had many times and many threads. And even as a regular poster of videos, I am sure one cannot understand a component in isolation by listening to the whole system on video, OR IN REAL. But show reports go on. People ask for recommendations on electronics and tables after the Munich show. And people make their decision on that. Equally ridiculous
In anticipation of this weekend and ultimately the Horizon landing here, I spent the past two days comparing the Pacific direct to amps versus Pacific through the Simaudio 850p preamp, in my system. (One caveat: As the Pacific does not have 2 pairs of xlr outs, I wasn't able to utilize my sub in the comp. Very glad the Horizon will have this option). Odin2 ics, Odin2 PCs on Pacific and 850p, and Odin1 pcs on amps. Pacific and 850p roughly same retail. Amps have 47,500 input impedance. Pacific with RK KR 242s and 274b, balanced with VC.
Just thought I'd share a couple observations:
- Initial reaction to Pacific direct into amps: Was extremely impressed with the increased resolution, clarity and seemingly quieter background. A background, low-level resonance was also removed. Slam and quickness all still there. The leading edges of instruments were so potent. For the first 10-15 minutes, I thought, wow, I can't believe I had not tried this before. Am I an idiot. (One interesting note, even at the quietest level on the Pacific VC, volumes were decently high at ~65db-c average.)
- Swapped back and forth a few times yesterday then did a straight a/b/a this afternoon.
- Pacific to preamp: Ultimately, I realized that with the preamp in the mix there was an added body to notes. Vocals sounded more natural, could hear the moisture in the vocalists' mouthes (if that's your thing), the additional musicality and liquidity came back that allowed me to further relax in my chair. Details were still there but with more saturation.
- It is for those last reasons, that, for me, I'd stick with my preamp in the mix for now. Don't want to think about the extra cost though associated with that mix
and whether its justified.
But, in the end, if the Horizon's linestage section is that superior to the Pacific and if it can maintain that musicality and saturation, I can truly imagine removing the pre-amp from my chain if I continue to use my current monoblocks.
Can't wait to find out.
Just thought I'd share a couple observations:
- Initial reaction to Pacific direct into amps: Was extremely impressed with the increased resolution, clarity and seemingly quieter background. A background, low-level resonance was also removed. Slam and quickness all still there. The leading edges of instruments were so potent. For the first 10-15 minutes, I thought, wow, I can't believe I had not tried this before. Am I an idiot. (One interesting note, even at the quietest level on the Pacific VC, volumes were decently high at ~65db-c average.)
- Swapped back and forth a few times yesterday then did a straight a/b/a this afternoon.
- Pacific to preamp: Ultimately, I realized that with the preamp in the mix there was an added body to notes. Vocals sounded more natural, could hear the moisture in the vocalists' mouthes (if that's your thing), the additional musicality and liquidity came back that allowed me to further relax in my chair. Details were still there but with more saturation.
- It is for those last reasons, that, for me, I'd stick with my preamp in the mix for now. Don't want to think about the extra cost though associated with that mix
and whether its justified.But, in the end, if the Horizon's linestage section is that superior to the Pacific and if it can maintain that musicality and saturation, I can truly imagine removing the pre-amp from my chain if I continue to use my current monoblocks.
Can't wait to find out.
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i know the old adage less is more and can be true. but adding an active line stage to a system with ample power can show things in a more additive manner. i asked what your amps input imp was for a good reason. a Lampi pac has a higher then some output imp so the amps input and cable length matter plenty. the horizon has a far less output imp by design. a well-made preamp that can drive your amp is more important than removing itIn anticipation of this weekend and ultimately the Horizon landing here, I spent the past two days comparing the Pacific direct to amps versus Pacific through the Simaudio 850p preamp, in my system. (One caveat: As the Pacific does not have 2 pairs of xlr outs, I wasn't able to utilize my sub in the comp. Very glad the Horizon will have this option). Odin2 ics, Odin2 PCs on Pacific and 850p, and Odin1 pcs on amps. Pacific and 850p roughly same retail. Amps have 47,500 input impedance. Pacific with RK KR 242s and 274b, balanced with VC.
Just thought I'd share a couple observations:
- Initial reaction to Pacific direct into amps: Was extremely impressed with the increased resolution, clarity and seemingly quieter background. A background, low-level resonance was also removed. Slam and quickness all still there. The leading edges of instruments were so potent. For the first 10-15 minutes, I thought, wow, I can't believe I had not tried this before. Am I an idiot. (One interesting note, even at the quietest level on the Pacific VC, volumes were decently high at ~65db-c average.)
- Swapped back and forth a few times yesterday then did a straight a/b/a this afternoon.
- Pacific to preamp: Ultimately, I realized that with the preamp in the mix there was an added body to notes. Vocals sounded more natural, could hear the moisture in the vocalists' mouthes (if that's your thing), the additional musicality and liquidity came back that allowed me to further relax in my chair. Details were still there but with more saturation.
- It is for those last reasons, that, for me, I'd stick with my preamp in the mix for now. Don't want to think about the extra cost though associated with that mix
But, in the end, if the Horizon's linestage section is that superior to the Pacific and if it can maintain that musicality and saturation, I can truly imagine removing the pre-amp from my chain if I continue to use my current monoblocks.
Can't wait to find out.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
So to all guests coming to this weekend I have an added attraction that was just done this afternoon and frankly I am stunned. As you know my server for the Horizon is the Taiko Extreme. Emile has 75% of the new OS finished and via Team Viewer is now working beautifully in my system
Short and sweet, I stopped using Roon 2 years ago and this update is so dramatic that not only is TAS better BUT Roon is not only better than TAS , it destroys TAS
My preamp volume went down with the arrival of the Horizon as I am running the Horizon signal at full gain but with the addition of the new OS my level is now at 4 on my preamp.
I am betting this is temporary until XDMS is released by Taiko
Here is the link to my comments so rather than not repeating here......
whatsbestforum.com
Short and sweet, I stopped using Roon 2 years ago and this update is so dramatic that not only is TAS better BUT Roon is not only better than TAS , it destroys TAS
My preamp volume went down with the arrival of the Horizon as I am running the Horizon signal at full gain but with the addition of the new OS my level is now at 4 on my preamp.
I am betting this is temporary until XDMS is released by Taiko
Here is the link to my comments so rather than not repeating here......
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
In preparation of my 11th week from the order o_O, to make the wait even spicier I have decided to get a Daiza as well. Talking about isolation from various types of disturbances, has anybody tried grounding devices on the Extreme? Is there a consensus about whether it is better to power it...
whatsbestforum.com
I post this clip for fun. Steve Williams' system is amazing. I love it.
I think you should not challenge everyone about music. We only share our system with our passion. We get success together.
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Steve, I have the same impression that recent Roon update has significantly improved the sound quality. I do hope it stays that way...So to all guests coming to this weekend I have an added attraction that was just done this afternoon and frankly I am stunned. As you know my server for the Horizon is the Taiko Extreme. Emile has 75% of the new OS finished and via Team Viewer is now working beautifully in my system
Short and sweet, I stopped using Roon 2 years ago and this update is so dramatic that not only is TAS better BUT Roon is not only better than TAS , it destroys TAS
My preamp volume went down with the arrival of the Horizon as I am running the Horizon signal at full gain but with the addition of the new OS my level is now at 4 on my preamp.
I am betting this is temporary until XDMS is released by Taiko
Here is the link to my comments so rather than not repeating here......
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
In preparation of my 11th week from the order o_O, to make the wait even spicier I have decided to get a Daiza as well. Talking about isolation from various types of disturbances, has anybody tried grounding devices on the Extreme? Is there a consensus about whether it is better to power it...
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It was however the "huge" jump in sound quality that came yesterday when Emile installed the new OS, I have never heard Roon sound as good nor has my system ever sounded so good listening to streaming via Roon. TAS for Mme has suddenly taken a step back as to what I will use until the full OS is installed and XDMS is available. All bets are off at that point as there will be no doubt in my mind that XDMS will be better than Roon. Emile and his ever growing team have been working long and hard to bring this to fruition and IMO he wouldn't be doing this unless he felt he could release a product with better SQ than Roon. That for me is a sure bet
Steve, had you been listening to Roon over the past 6 months, prior to the new Roon release? If not, some, or much, of the sound quality bump could be due to that.
Also, are you saying that TAS took a step backward, sound quality-wise, compared to itself (not Roon)?
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
TAS did not take a step backward with the new . In fact it took a step forward just not as huge a step forward as Roon. I have not listened to Roon in 2 years until someone commented that the 2nd to last Roon build helped SQ. That was my first and only log into Roon in 2 years and I commented that "Roon now was as good was Roon was just before that fateful Build 537 (IIRC) where the SQ went to crap and Taiko began their development of TAS.
Bear in mind that I only received 75% of the OS as the remaining 25% AFAIK is now working on TAS improvement and to make XDMS better than Roon. I am confident he will
Bear in mind that I only received 75% of the OS as the remaining 25% AFAIK is now working on TAS improvement and to make XDMS better than Roon. I am confident he will
What a great sounding and looking system, Steve! I wholeheartedly agree with your take regarding the sharing of our passion for great music and the components that deliver such. I get a vicarious excitement (and sometimes a little jealousy, ha!) at the audio systems that I see here at WBF and elsewhere!
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