LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Happy Sunday to everyone. It is a beautiful day here in Southern California. I find that there are few threads that I read daily on a regular basis. Many are the Lampizator threads and meeting new users and sharing tube impressions with other users. This tread is a daily read for me. I have found the Horizon to be a most amazing DAC and with the literally endless combinations of tubes that can be used this thread has become a testing ground for all users. Lately I have become enamored with the fun I'm having going in a completely different direction and searching out NOS vintage tubes from the 1930's and 1940's. Just when "I thought I was done, they pulled me back in". Well I'm no Michael Corleone and have taken the bait but the bait came at members far more experienced in tube rolling than myself. To wit, the 3 most prominent here on WBF and the Horizon are Laszlo (Takacs75), Goran and Ian. These three are not only far and way ahead of the pack that when they suggest something and back it up with comparisons I could not help but stand up and take notice. The beauty of these guys' knowledge is that it also brings with the knowledge of lifetime tube collectors (such as Francois in France and Tibor in Budapest). I know that countless members here are enjoying the fruits of their tube selection. When the Tungsram Os1 hit and suddenly disappeared, Francois comes to the rescue and suggested a P17c which many also use and prefer to the OS1.Suddenly ,as well, we started to talk about rectifiers built in the 1930's which completely bested any current day ones that I have used and I have used about 8 prior to discovering the 1934 TFKN RGN 2004 mesh plate and then the Valvo G2504. Both of these rectifiers require a special adaptor with a resistor that changes the voltage for 5v to 4V. Such adapters could be purchased on eBay out of China at a reasonable price however Laszlo and Tibor came to rescue and I have been using their adapter which works on both RGN2004 and G2504.
After OS1 a change was made to SRS551 which also required a special adapter which had to be made of parts from the original and these were difficult to source. Again Laslo and Tibor to the rescue.
Why do I mention all of this....to give readers some insight into the mind of Ian (plasmod3) who is an ardent DIYer and has exceptional knowledge of all the vintage tubes we discuss and as $ luck $
would have it Ian tends also to be a collector of so many great tubes. Well Ian with his skills and knowledge, as well as being an audiophile set out to make adapters and the first was a better version of what I and several others were using. Ian, is like I was, a practicing physician by day and an audiophile by night. Ian was determined to produce such a better adapter and doing his due diligence he came upon 2 different resistors (Dueland and IIRC 'soundpath'?) which he felt would be his sources. Accordingly he built the shorter version that I have with the soundpath resistor) and a much taller adapter which houses both adapters. Ian had good insight as to what would be gained from each adapter and what would be gained to use both.
I received both adapters about 10 days ago and include the comparative photos below....For reasons which are obvious I decided I just could not audition the tall one as , aesthetically it wasn't going into my system. I must admit that I had similar thoughts even with the short single resistor version not so much as the size and aesthetics but rather because out of the box it sounded like the version I received from Laszlo. I understood some burn in would be required but here now at 10 days I find these adaptors are tough to ignore because there is now a noticeable reduction of some top end glare edginess. Hate to come back to the word so talked about here at WBF, but Ian's Adapter made the sound more natural. It had air to breathe and the tonality, timbre and dynamics were truly as natural as I have heard with digital. As stated I was going to send this back to Ian because it was tall and sounded like the simple adapter I have . After 10 days only it has opened up and I find that it's still the aesthetics but inasmuch as I always listen alone and with the lights off...............
Bottom line is Ian is onto something. He has even produced an attached grounding cable and has hidden the initial look with a laser printer generated outer shield.
Ian, Laszlo and Tibor are not only enthusiasts about tubes but all seem up to the idea that with "the dawning of the age of Horizon" and so many vintage tubes to explore , many of which will indeed require special adapters, I would suggest hitting up Ian who is from "down under" and Laslo who lives in the world renown and beautiful city of Budapest....Both of these guys have brought things to the table that I am betting would never have happened without the Horizon. Plus I am noticing now trickle down is finding these recti now in the Lampi Pacific
Initial thoughts after 10 days is very positive, for my ears at least and anyone who is needing a special resistor should reach out to Ian.
My final thought........as we so often say, "everything matters" and Ian has proved to my ears that a simple thing as a rectifier matters, but so also aesthetics matter .....we all know that we can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.....my analogy is that I wonder if such a better adapter exist and is not sufficiently so large that it can fit in the eating adapters that we all use now. I see a budding business in this and we are fortunate at WBF to have several pioneers in this game
After OS1 a change was made to SRS551 which also required a special adapter which had to be made of parts from the original and these were difficult to source. Again Laslo and Tibor to the rescue.
Why do I mention all of this....to give readers some insight into the mind of Ian (plasmod3) who is an ardent DIYer and has exceptional knowledge of all the vintage tubes we discuss and as $ luck $
would have it Ian tends also to be a collector of so many great tubes. Well Ian with his skills and knowledge, as well as being an audiophile set out to make adapters and the first was a better version of what I and several others were using. Ian, is like I was, a practicing physician by day and an audiophile by night. Ian was determined to produce such a better adapter and doing his due diligence he came upon 2 different resistors (Dueland and IIRC 'soundpath'?) which he felt would be his sources. Accordingly he built the shorter version that I have with the soundpath resistor) and a much taller adapter which houses both adapters. Ian had good insight as to what would be gained from each adapter and what would be gained to use both.I received both adapters about 10 days ago and include the comparative photos below....For reasons which are obvious I decided I just could not audition the tall one as , aesthetically it wasn't going into my system. I must admit that I had similar thoughts even with the short single resistor version not so much as the size and aesthetics but rather because out of the box it sounded like the version I received from Laszlo. I understood some burn in would be required but here now at 10 days I find these adaptors are tough to ignore because there is now a noticeable reduction of some top end glare edginess. Hate to come back to the word so talked about here at WBF, but Ian's Adapter made the sound more natural. It had air to breathe and the tonality, timbre and dynamics were truly as natural as I have heard with digital. As stated I was going to send this back to Ian because it was tall and sounded like the simple adapter I have . After 10 days only it has opened up and I find that it's still the aesthetics but inasmuch as I always listen alone and with the lights off...............
Bottom line is Ian is onto something. He has even produced an attached grounding cable and has hidden the initial look with a laser printer generated outer shield.
Ian, Laszlo and Tibor are not only enthusiasts about tubes but all seem up to the idea that with "the dawning of the age of Horizon" and so many vintage tubes to explore , many of which will indeed require special adapters, I would suggest hitting up Ian who is from "down under" and Laslo who lives in the world renown and beautiful city of Budapest....Both of these guys have brought things to the table that I am betting would never have happened without the Horizon. Plus I am noticing now trickle down is finding these recti now in the Lampi Pacific
Initial thoughts after 10 days is very positive, for my ears at least and anyone who is needing a special resistor should reach out to Ian.
My final thought........as we so often say, "everything matters" and Ian has proved to my ears that a simple thing as a rectifier matters, but so also aesthetics matter .....we all know that we can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.....my analogy is that I wonder if such a better adapter exist and is not sufficiently so large that it can fit in the eating adapters that we all use now. I see a budding business in this and we are fortunate at WBF to have several pioneers in this game
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Both adapter with 3D printer generated outer sheath and attached grounding cable
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Single resistor adapter of Ian's which to my ears is a must hear
You can get this in the US too Kojo Crystal E. Cheap and effectiveTry grounding it to one of the boxes Ian sells
I have the same adapter from Ian. This is the best adapter I’ve ever heard. Congrat bro! A huge upgrade compared to any other adapters. Which means that I have to built a better one
Competition is always good to the market
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I listened to it all day yesterday and as I stated Ian is clearly onto something. Between his source of great tubes and his skills in fabrication , Ian has become an essential force to we Lampi lovers.
I sent a photo of the tall adapter to Lukasz for comment several weeks ago. I’m still waiting for a reply
I sent a photo of the tall adapter to Lukasz for comment several weeks ago. I’m still waiting for a reply
I received Ian’s ‘short’ adapter today and promptly set it to work in my Baltic dac. Am posting this in the Horizon thread for the sake of continuity of coverage, though the information is equally relevant to all Lampi dac owners.
Using an early Viennese made Tungsram pv4200, I was most impressed by the immediate improvement in sound quality despite the adapter being new.
I was greeted by a grainless and clearer presentation, with a better evolved tonal structure. Arguably, this gain in performance was greater than I have often experienced between different leading rectifier options.
There is inevitably an interaction between the rectifier and the tubes following it, which in this case were valvo e83f (as a substitute for 6sn7) and followed by the extremely rare Tungsram e80cc nickel plates. In other words ymmv, though the pv4200 shares the same electrical spec as rgn2004.
My advice to people mulling over their upgrade options would be to allocate some budget into a better adaptor before considering more exotic / expensive rectifiers. You will get an immediate uptick as well as providing a better infrastructure for future tube upgrades.
What I find especially commendable is the effort and fast learning Ian has displayed in this endeavour. I had the pleasure of meeting Ian at my home at Easter, whilst his family were on vacation in London, and he heard his first 4v rectifier (Milan rgn2004). In the space of barely 4 months, he has widely researched the landscape and developed his own solutions with 3D printing whilst also having a demanding day job and a young family. That said, I’ve a feeling that Ian is only just getting started!
The elephant in the room is that the looks aren’t for everyone, and I for one will likely be hiding it away when not in use. Unfortunately the form factor is driven by the massive size of the Path resistor. As a long time sceptic of superfluous parts in the signal path, I can’t help but wonder how much better a native 4v psu / B4 socket would be in the dac, however I also realise that this path would only be for the purist minority.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
@hifirabbit - Hi Wai Lee. Is an e83f, another telephone amplifier pentode, like the C3g. These particular ones are Valvo from @1960 with D foil getter though Tungsram are widely available and may sound better still.
Hi Mark,
Did you get a chance to compare the e83f to the Cg3 tubes?
what adapters do you use for the e83f tubes?
Yes i have compared the siemens c3g against e83f with both using the xulingmrs / ebay adapters. E83f is more articulate and neutral than c3g though I have yet to try either c3gs or any more exotic e83f options. The valvo were cheapos to get me up and running. In my Baltic, it is possible to run a rca / single ended signal with just one tube per adaptor and I found this to sound marginally more pure than using a pair of tubes on each side.
Thank you very much guys for your support am sure i will have more bright ideas to come. Currently experimenting with a few thoughst in my kind atm. The adaptor i hope in time will be regarded as a component level change....dter all ppl change fuses which is another glorified resistor..why not an adaptor
am sure i will have more bright ideas to come. Currently experimenting with a few thoughst in my kind atm. The adaptor i hope in time will be regarded as a component level change....dter all ppl change fuses which is another glorified resistor..why not an adaptorJumbo Rs1003 review
Something i have promised a while back but never got time to
So the Rs1003 is quite an amazing tube and theres quite a few variants out there. I have most of em but not the wf one...which is on its way to me atm. But rather than wait lets dive in
Siemens
Dual getter . Earliest version has disk getter and much much darker plates. See photos. Glass nipple is at the bottom rather than the top. Plate bridge slightly more elaborate.
Chelmer
Grey plates. Quad getter. Again different bridge. Top Nipple
AEG
Grey plates same as Chelmer but with mircroperforations/ weld spots on base of wing. No bridge! quad getter. Top Nipple
After listening to all 3. AEG wins! No doubt about it. Chelmer is ok but aeg gives that extra slice of naturalness here. Truly remarkable. Only wf to try as last to see
I am disappointed with the early siemens disk getter tl say the least ...with it's dark plates i thought i was onto gold....but alas not to be here and very very disappointed
Get the aeg if you can guys.
Something i have promised a while back but never got time to
So the Rs1003 is quite an amazing tube and theres quite a few variants out there. I have most of em but not the wf one...which is on its way to me atm. But rather than wait lets dive in
Siemens
Dual getter . Earliest version has disk getter and much much darker plates. See photos. Glass nipple is at the bottom rather than the top. Plate bridge slightly more elaborate.
Chelmer
Grey plates. Quad getter. Again different bridge. Top Nipple
AEG
Grey plates same as Chelmer but with mircroperforations/ weld spots on base of wing. No bridge! quad getter. Top Nipple
After listening to all 3. AEG wins! No doubt about it. Chelmer is ok but aeg gives that extra slice of naturalness here. Truly remarkable. Only wf to try as last to see
I am disappointed with the early siemens disk getter tl say the least ...with it's dark plates i thought i was onto gold....but alas not to be here and very very disappointed
Get the aeg if you can guys.
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