LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

[Sampajanna]

Quick update here. Tube rolling with the Horizon is at one time maddening and euphoric. Currently, have 10+ rectifiers, 10+ pentodes, 10+ triodes... thousands of combinations. Most of these options have come from recommendations here. I have chased many of the latest and greatest of recommendations of synergistic pairing of all 3 types (rectifiers, triodes, pentodes). A relatively embarrassing amount of $ compared to the cost of the Horizon.

In the last few days, I have been revisiting 'tier 2' tubes of different types. Tubes that were left for the forgotten/dead as the newest tubes were discovered over the last 12 months. All of sudden I am finding new synergies and arguably better sounding combinations in my system. Mixing and matching the old with some of the new. Such a wonderful experience. Glad I have not sold off my stash. Certain tube characteristics are starting to make sense that pair well, but such a long fun journey ahead. Given everyone’s system is different, i don’t think there is truly a holy grail combo for all. But it does seem some commonalities/preferences can be drawn. Retesting old/new permutations can be helpful. Just might be a diamond in the rough combo previous undiscovered for your system. In my view definitely not a one size fits all or linear trajectory for synergy across all tube types.

I often remember what Lukasz once said, there is no bad tube on the Horizon. I totally agree when you consider the synergistic value of all 3 types together.

fwiw, have another $5k of tubes sitting at LAX customs being flagged/delayed as they are convinced they are to be used for medical devices (including the Valvo and c3gs). FDA involved lol ugh

What combos are you using these days? I would love to hear more about it

 

[takacs75]

Soft launch of the C3g and E83f adapters from hardwood. These are the prototypes, listeng test tonight

 

[steve williams]

The fun just never ends. Kudos to Laszlo and Tibor

 

[steve williams]

Over the pst few weeks as the c3g/s burns in the sound has for men become something that once heard you cannot unring that bell. I believe that all of us who are using the c3g or c3g/s along with the Valvo G2504 have found that the dynamics are such that we all have had to dial back the VC gain on the Horizon from 63 to 59 in order to allow our preamp to have better control over the signsl. Personally I prefer the Horizon to pass the full signal to my preamp(63) but the gain was just too much. I now use the Horizon gain between 58-60 depending on the genre of music played. I had a brain wave yesterday to resurrect the TFKN RGN20004 to try in place of the Valvo with the hope that not only would the sound be excellent but I would be able to get back to 63 on my Horizon. I listened for several hours yesterday and my conclusion was simple....the Valvo G2504 in my system is a must . As nice as the sound was it lacked so much detail that was otherwise heard with the Valvo. I went back to the Valvo later last night and the smile returned to my face. I have a different RGN 2004 I plan on trying today in place of the Valvo. BTW, I did get to 63 with the TFKN RGN 2004 but it didn't come close to the detail provided by the Valvo when the Horizon was at 59

 

[steve williams]

Soft launch of the C3g and E83f adapters from hardwood. These are the prototypes, listeng test tonight

I love the TP logo

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/attachments/162f83cc-01f5-4fc3-bbd2-3b371e6e6531-jpeg.115221/

 

[takacs75]

We had the world premier of the TP adapters tonight in my listening room. TP is for my and Tibor’s family name Takacs&Pinter
Not sure I'm the most credible to promote my own product. I try to remain objective and speak as a user. So I'll just say that these adapters are f…ing great.

 

[Golum]

As i told you via WhatsApp those look amazing. Good job done.
What is that mesh wire doing around e83f?

 

[takacs75]

As i told you via WhatsApp those look amazing. Good job done.
What is that mesh wire doing around e83f?

Additional metal shielding. Like a tiny Farraday cage

 

[Sampajanna]

These are epic adapters. I will get some soon!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Congratulations to Laszlo and Tibor for creating these very promising looking adapters!

I’m especially excited about the shielded e83f version and members with long memories might recall some successful experiments by GG owners several years ago, link below

www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/golden-gate-rejuvenated.24312/#post-480603

 

[plasmod3]

Very well done and made beautiful adaptors Laszlo congratulations are in order!

 

[steve williams]

Over the pst few weeks as the c3g/s burns in the sound has for men become something that once heard you cannot unring that bell. I believe that all of us who are using the c3g or c3g/s along with the Valvo G2504 have found that the dynamics are such that we all have had to dial back the VC gain on the Horizon from 63 to 59 in order to allow our preamp to have better control over the signsl. Personally I prefer the Horizon to pass the full signal to my preamp(63) but the gain was just too much. I now use the Horizon gain between 58-60 depending on the genre of music played. I had a brain wave yesterday to resurrect the TFKN RGN20004 to try in place of the Valvo with the hope that not only would the sound be excellent but I would be able to get back to 63 on my Horizon. I listened for several hours yesterday and my conclusion was simple....the Valvo G2504 in my system is a must . As nice as the sound was it lacked so much detail that was otherwise heard with the Valvo. I went back to the Valvo later last night and the smile returned to my face. I have a different RGN 2004 I plan on trying today in place of the Valvo. BTW, I did get to 63 with the TFKN RGN 2004 but it didn't come close to the detail provided by the Valvo when the Horizon was at 59

a follow up to this post is necessary. As it turned to the RGN 2004 which I used to evaluate in my system in place of the Valvo was on its last gasp. Using the Valvo I did have to decrease the VC on the Horizon to 59 . This yielded much better control with. my preamp. Having said that the sound was simply fantastic. Best Ive ever heard. Yet for some reason I really prefer the entire signal from the Horizon reach my DAC. I thought the RGN2004 might get me back but at what price.. Last nifght I used my backup RGN 2004 and it functioned flawlessly and gave me a better listen than with the failing tube. The RGN as dynamic as it was, still came no where near as dynamic as the Valvo. I was easily able to listen with the Horizon VC back at 63. I must admit that the sound was simply beautiful and this is a fantastic option. Yet having said this, after all is said and done the Valvo without question rules supreme even with the Horizon volume at 59.

 

[keithc]

FWIW @plasmod3 and @Sablon Audio

reading Marks post about using a single tube in each of the double sockets sounded better prompted me to give it a try .

you need a tube in the front left and rear right

View attachment 114532

I tried a single tube as indicated above but TBH I preferred the sound with both tubes in each split adapter. These tubes last forever so Im staying with the initial configuration

Interesting!
Is this only for the horizon but also for the GG/Pac? Or is the use of these small tubes different (eg anode loading in Pac but not in H)?
Can anyone give a layman’s explanation of why a single small signal tube needs to be replaced by a pair of these C3G?

 

[Sampajanna]

I dont know the technical details, but I do know the local Horizon tube-rolling experts are on to something. I had the honor of meeting Lukasz at a show here and mentioned this tube configuration. He said he wasn’t surprised it sounds good and mentioned that he is experimenting with a dac configuration that has 4 driver slots like this built in inherently…

 

[steve williams]

Can anyone give a layman’s explanation of why a single small signal tube needs to be replaced by a pair of these C3G?

no one said it needs to be replaced by c3g but the sound is simply amazing. FWIW all signal tubes are not small. Previous to the c3g I was using Mullard brown base ECC32

 

[Sablon Audio]

Can anyone give a layman’s explanation of why a single small signal tube needs to be replaced by a pair of these C3G?

The small tubes originally fitted are dual triodes i.e. two amplifying devices in a single tube. Each side handles a single phase signal eg rca output only uses one triode section but xlr uses both. The c3g and e83f tubes are both being run as single triodes, so two are needed on each channel to pass an xlr signal. Hence the dual adapters. Same story for 6j5 which is a half / single triode version of 6sn7.

 

[steve williams]

The small tubes originally fitted are dual triodes i.e. two amplifying devices in a single tube. Each side handles a single phase signal eg rca output only uses one triode section but xlr uses both. The c3g and e83f tubes are both being run as single triodes, so two are needed on each channel to pass an xlr signal. Hence the dual adapters. Same story for 6j5 which is a half / single triode version of 6sn7.

FWIW, I run my Horizon SE and took your advice an used a single c3g/s in each adapter. I must admit the sound was OK but nowhere nearly as good when running 2 c3g/s per adapter.Since I have had my Horizon, many tubes have come and gone , many were terrific and a few even better.Some made a huge impression on my ears. However without question the single biggest epiphany I have had with any of the tubes I have used has come from the TFKN c3g/s It is a game changer.

 

[John T]

FWIW, I run my Horizon SE and took your advice an used a single c3g/s in each adapter. I must admit the sound was OK but nowhere nearly as good when running 2 c3g/s per adapter.Since I have had my Horizon, many tubes have come and gone , many were terrific and a few even better.Some made a huge impression on my ears. However without question the single biggest epiphany I have had with any of the tubes I have used has come from the TFKN c3g/s It is a game changer.

What's the difference between c3g/s and c3g?

 

[steve williams]

$$$$

 

[steve williams]

ask Ian. He has posted here extensively about it