LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

Chelmer
 

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Yes i have compared the siemens c3g against e83f with both using the xulingmrs / ebay adapters. E83f is more articulate and neutral than c3g though I have yet to try either c3gs or any more exotic e83f options. The valvo were cheapos to get me up and running. In my Baltic, it is possible to run a rca / single ended signal with just one tube per adaptor and I found this to sound marginally more pure than using a pair of tubes on each side.
There are quite a few e83f types out there. Laszlo has compared the 2 as well and same conclusions with Mark here with the c3g but not the s. The telefunken C3gs remains the key here and if you ground the center socket using a nos socket it improves it quite dramatically.

The oldest e83f is a phillip miniwatt. Red circular print on the glass. Hard to find. There is also a holland pinched waist version ..also hard to find...
 
Today’s arrival is a pair of 4004, one Valvo and one Telefunken in sealed original box. Rgn2004 mesh alongside for size comparison.

Although these have a 4amp heater, being 4 volts means they draw 16 watts, barely more than the 15 watts of the stock 5u4g. It will likely reach the ceiling on top of Ian’s adapter :oops:

IMG_1643.jpeg
 
Today’s arrival is a pair of 4004, one Valvo and one Telefunken in sealed original box. Rgn2004 mesh alongside for size comparison.

Although these have a 4amp heater, being 4 volts means they draw 16 watts, barely more than the 15 watts of the stock 5u4g. It will likely reach the ceiling on top of Ian’s adapter :oops:

View attachment 114491
Beautiful tubes mark:) I love that 4004!
 
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FWIW @plasmod3 and @Sablon Audio

reading Marks post about using a single tube in each of the double sockets sounded better prompted me to give it a try .

you need a tube in the front left and rear right

Image 8-10-23 at 9.05 AM.jpg

I tried a single tube as indicated above but TBH I preferred the sound with both tubes in each split adapter. These tubes last forever so Im staying with the initial configuration
 
so this is how mine will stay BUT I am hoping there is some research and development going on regarding the production of a better adapter for the C3gs. The one out of China is quite cheap.

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another experiment I tried at the encouragement of Ian (because I run my Horizon SE and not Balanced) was to try different pentodes in the right bank of the power tube side of the Horizon. I had TS KT 170 in the right bank and really thought they served no real purpose except to fill the right bank sockets. Ian suggested that even in SE there is indeed a small contribution of the sound coming from the pentodes in the right bank. To that extent I removed the TSD KT 170 and inserted a match set of Tungsram OS1. There was indeed a change in dynamics and tonality with the sound from the OS1 somewhat softer and not nearly as dynamic as the KT170 (which I felt paired better with the SRS551 which is very dynamic. I went back to the TS KT170 as I prefer the more dynamic sound which also had better tonality and timbre
 
another experiment I tried at the encouragement of Ian (because I run my Horizon SE and not Balanced) was to try different pentodes in the right bank of the power tube side of the Horizon. I had TS KT 170 in the right bank and really thought they served no real purpose except to fill the right bank sockets. Ian suggested that even in SE there is indeed a small contribution of the sound coming from the pentodes in the right bank. To that extent I removed the TSD KT 170 and inserted a match set of Tungsram OS1. There was indeed a change in dynamics and tonality with the sound from the OS1 somewhat softer and not nearly as dynamic as the KT170 (which I felt paired better with the SRS551 which is very dynamic. I went back to the TS KT170 as I prefer the more dynamic sound which also had better tonality and timbre
I like using the bendix in the left bank (for xlr) - seems to give it that additional oomph:)
 
so this is how mine will stay BUT I am hoping there is some research and development going on regarding the production of a better adapter for the C3gs. The one out of China is quite cheap.

View attachment 114535
There is definately something on the horizon:) the chinese adaptors do decrease the performance a little. Am experimenting with some hard to get russian sockets atm - they look really good:) the english sockets do handily beat the china ones already
 
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Steve
For a guy who claimed he was not a tube roller (LOL), and with your penchant for always ordering multiple backup tubes, I would think you could be close to becoming a re-seller now!!!!
My wife likes the look of the long ones but is easily excited by the short ones. She can adapt.
 
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Steve
For a guy who claimed he was not a tube roller (LOL), and with your penchant for always ordering multiple backup tubes, I would think you could be close to becoming a re-seller now!!!!
My wife likes the look of the long ones but is easily excited by the short ones. She can adapt.
Never going to happen. In fact I have sold all of my tubes previously used and am quite a happy camper now. I did keep the Mullard Brown base ECC32 as well as the TFKN RGN 2004 mesh plate as I thought them to be exceptional. But never in my dreams could I imagine using two pentodes as a triode. The sound produced quite an uptick such that for the first time I have lowered the VC on the Horizon to 59 as this gives me better control using my preamp
 
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Never going to happen. In fact I have sold all of my tubes previously used and am quite a happy camper now. I did keep the Mullard Brown base ECC32 as well as the TFKN RGN 2004 mesh plate as I thought them to be exceptional. But never in my dreams could I imagine using two pentodes as a triode. The sound produced quite an uptick such that for the first time I have lowered the VC on the Horizon to 59 as this gives me better control using my preamp
"In fact I have sold all of my tubes previously used" I can attest Steve is telling the truth!
 
"In fact I have sold all of my tubes previously used" I can attest Steve is telling the truth!
There are so many excellent tube combinations for the Horizon but I don't have enough time nor the desire to listen to everything. I find what appeals to my ears, and works well with my room and my system. It's just been a habit of mine that when I find a tube that goes into operation I typically search out an adequate backup

Im totally fascinated by some of these super rare and vintage tubes. The sound they impart just doesn't seem to occur with present day tubes
 
There are so many excellent tube combinations for the Horizon but I don't have enough time nor the desire to listen to everything. I find what appeals to my ears, and works well with my room and my system. It's just been a habit of mine that when I find a tube that goes into operation I typically search out an adequate backup

Im totally fascinated by some of these super rare and vintage tubes. The sound they impart just doesn't seem to occur with present day tubes
The tubes in a sense are a forensic exploration. The whole history is quite fascinating. I would have never thought I'd get caught up in this. A little over a year ago I was clueless about tubes. Now I have a formidable collection and its growing. Thanks to many of you and your vast knowledge its been a lot of fun. Minus a few shekels. I follow the same rule of thumb in regards to backups. Maybe a little too much!
 
Detractor IMO is not the correct word.

My mantra is when descending into that rabbit hole you can still see the way out . I dip my toes , find what I want and stop. I find myself there now with the only thing looming on the "horizon" (no pun intended)are some first rate adapters for these tubes and knowing the people working to make this happen, I am already on the waiting list.
 
Quick update here. Tube rolling with the Horizon is at one time maddening and euphoric. Currently, have 10+ rectifiers, 10+ pentodes, 10+ triodes... thousands of combinations. Most of these options have come from recommendations here. I have chased many of the latest and greatest of recommendations of synergistic pairing of all 3 types (rectifiers, triodes, pentodes). A relatively embarrassing amount of $ compared to the cost of the Horizon.

In the last few days, I have been revisiting 'tier 2' tubes of different types. Tubes that were left for the forgotten/dead as the newest tubes were discovered over the last 12 months. All of sudden I am finding new synergies and arguably better sounding combinations in my system. Mixing and matching the old with some of the new. Such a wonderful experience. Glad I have not sold off my stash. Certain tube characteristics are starting to make sense that pair well, but such a long fun journey ahead. Given everyone’s system is different, i don’t think there is truly a holy grail combo for all. But it does seem some commonalities/preferences can be drawn. Retesting old/new permutations can be helpful. Just might be a diamond in the rough combo previous undiscovered for your system. In my view definitely not a one size fits all or linear trajectory for synergy across all tube types.

I often remember what Lukasz once said, there is no bad tube on the Horizon. I totally agree when you consider the synergistic value of all 3 types together.

fwiw, have another $5k of tubes sitting at LAX customs being flagged/delayed as they are convinced they are to be used for medical devices (including the Valvo and c3gs). FDA involved lol ugh
 
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