LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

[plasmod3]

Thanks for sharing. To clarify, I was comparing the totality of the new tubes (not just a single rectifier) with the Switch (not in tandem with Router or DCD, which I have not obtained yet) to my ears and in my system. The effect of the new tubes was startling (such unheard-of transparency and soundstage); I did not experience the same startling effect when the Switch was first inserted (but which I cannot do without once I heard the uptick).

Having said that the Telefunken mesh is better than the valvo solid. At least the one I have compared with. There is also a brass pin version of the valvo 2504 out there. Sounds different. And no it is not just the plating sanded off. Whole pin is just brass

 

[Trab]

Just wanted to mention, that there is a hope for those, who didn’t catch the train called Valvo G2504 mesh.
Marconi/Osram U12 / U14. Available still with mesh anodes. The sound is like you’d expect from oldest British tubes: warm, full bodied and vocals to die for.

 

[Sablon Audio]

I’ve just posted a list of tubes in classified, some of which might be of interest to Horizon owners

 

[treitz3]

That's horrible news. I hope there is a good outcome with this situation for all parties.

Tom

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Before going into deiatls I am curious why you think that friends at WBF will help you better than the factory which warrants this product? We deal immediately with all and any issues and never leave people without music. Going nuclear on us suggest that we ignored your request which is not true. Very sad.

 

[LampiNA]

I got a heads up on this post and wanted to address it. I'm not directly familiar with the matter, but sorry for any delay troubleshooting. Between the time zone differences and a never ending stream of emails it can take an extra day or so for the factory to respond.

A while back we received a batch of transformers from one of our suppliers which had a few failures. We've totally discontinued using this supplier and believe at this point that all issues have presented themselves by now, but rest assured if there is another straggler out there we will absolutely take care of it at our own expense, regardless of whether you are the original owner. The "not if, but when" comment is not accurate.

Lukasz is traveling at the moment and only has a cell phone but he'll respond further as soon as he can.

As it pertains to the hum you're experiencing, I am happy to troubleshoot with you if you want to reach out to me. Preliminarily I would say that most instances where a transformer is physically humming (not hum through speakers) it is caused by having a bit of DC on the mains. A cheap and easy experiment is using a DC blocker l like an AVA Humdinger to help determine if the issue is environmental.

Best,

Fred A.

 

[marty]

Hi my What's Best "Folks". I thought I'd use this thread, at first instance, because everyone here is a Lampi DAC owner and many of you are Horizon owners, like me.

I'm one of the unfortunate soles whose Horizon suffered a catastrophic transformer failure. The pungent smoke and odour from the fried transformer permeated my listening room for over two weeks. When I emailed Lukasz to advise what happened his response made it obvious that the failure did not come as a surprise to him: "Hello Ray, I am sorry to hear that. We have an upgraded higher spec transformers for the repair and this fault should never happen again."

I got my DAC back on Sunday and set it up again with the assistance of a couple of buds from our local audio club, given its weight and their interest in my system including the Horizon DAC. From the moment I powered it up and for the last 3 days it has a very audible hum that can be heard from my listening position 13' away.

Before the failure and fix, the Horizon had a slight hum during the power-up phase. After that, the hum was only audible if you put your ear close to the unit. Yesterday, one of my audio buds came by and said; "This has got to be the most expensive vibrator ever made"

Apparently, a few other Horizons have suffered the same failure and I'm trying to find out if the owners of those "repaired" DACs (any of you) have experienced the same humming/buzzing problem post fix. I also understand that the failure is a "when and not if" problem given the faulty transformer component.

I emailed Lukasz and Rob on Monday, but "crickets" so far (which would be a more satisfying sound, than this annoying hum).

I'd be grateful for any information you can offer regarding this problem good gentlemen.

Best regards,

Ray

Ray
Some obvious questions if I may:
1) Can you identify the frequency of the hum. Is it 60 Hz (a simple iphone app can identify the frequency).
2) Do you use any tube adapters? I received pentode tube adapters from one individual who supposedly made good adapters, and no matter which tubes I tried, the unit hummed. (NOT TP adapters which are excellent). I have not heard back from the vendor so I now have some fancy $300 paper weights sitting on my shelf.
3) Do you use any power conditioners? I once had an expensive well known conditioner that caused hum. When I removed the conditioner, the problem disappeared. Paradoxical but true!
3) Fred is correct. Hum is often due to some DC in your AC line. A simple multi meter can be diagnostic.

Good luck.

 

[rspyder]

Hi folks. The post about my repaired Horizon DAC drew a response as opposed to an answer. I have consequently removed it. I have always been and remain a fan of Lampizator and its products.

My comment of "when and not if" was based on "my" understanding of the supplier defect, but Lukasz has since advised that brand of transformer did not end up in every unit. Regrettably, it did in mine and the fix introduced a different kind of problem. I am now confident that my current concern will be fully addressed and I wish to thank Rob and Lukasz for their recent and appreciated support.

To address Marty's question; I have tubes with adapters and when the problem arose upon start-up, I swapped out to stock tubes (no adapters) to make sure that wasn't the source of the hum before contacting Lampizator. All elements in my system were unchanged from before. I have ordered new adapters from Laszlo to eliminate any potential risk to the DAC's circuits associated with stock eBay adapters even though I have not experienced any problems with the stock ones.

I did not intend my post as "Going nuclear" and my sincere apologies if its content came across in that manner. The subject fix was done under warranty.

As you can see from my past WBF posts about my Horizon experience; they are considered, conscientious and positive. This is a great community, and Lukasz makes spectacular audio components that we can enjoy and discuss.

Regards and thanks,

Ray

 

[dminches]

I just installed a set of C3Gs. Interestingly, I used them in my custom built headphone amp.

For those of you who have gone from 6SN7s or ECC32s to these I wondering what you liked about them (not saying I don’t).

 

[Golum]

In my system they just give more of everything - punch, dynamics, clarity, details, gain.
But my system might be different vs others as its all DHT based with a tad specific preamp in sense of gain. So, I totally love c3gS as well as regular c3g - but would still opt for S version as its to certain minimal extent better in above mentioned domains vs regular one. Seems to me that regular has a bit "warmer" delivery hence I prefer the "S" one.
But let me be clear -> Mullard ecc32 is still a phenomenal tube and in my book above all 6sn7 I tried - and I tried/have the top tier ones.
Side note 1: all above said is with TFK EL156 pentodes which I LOVE (more than p17c & OS1).
Side note 2: c3gS in TP adapters; TFK in Chinese ones

 

[Steve Williams]

In my system they just give more of everything - punch, dynamics, clarity, details, gain.
But my system might be different vs others as its all DHT based with a tad specific preamp in sense of gain. So, I totally love c3gS as well as regular c3g - but would still opt for S version as its to certain minimal extent better in above mentioned domains vs regular one. Seems to me that regular has a bit "warmer" delivery hence I prefer the "S" one.
But let me be clear -> Mullard ecc32 is still a phenomenal tube and in my book above all 6sn7 I tried - and I tried/have the top tier ones.
Side note 1: all above said is with TFK EL156 pentodes which I LOVE (more than p17c & OS1).
Side note 2: c3gS in TP adapters; TFK in Chinese ones

Totally agree Goran. I couldn’t have said it better. I still have TS6SN7 GT and ECC32 beautiful tubes but in my system the c3gs lights me up. There is just more of everything I also agree about c3gs vs c3g. I also would add that Telefunken seems to provide the best of everything

 

[heihei]

Concur with the above. I've done a reasonable amount of tube rolling, but since putting the c3g into my Horizon probably 3-4 months ago, I've not rolled a single tube!

 

[christoph]

Concur with the above. I've done a reasonable amount of tube rolling, but since putting the c3g into my Horizon probably 3-4 months ago, I've not rolled a single tube!

Have you guys with the C3g also tried the E83F and if yes, what is your verdict?

 

[Anyoldears]

Have you guys with the C3g also tried the E83F and if yes, what is your verdict?

I preferred the E83F. Bit more zippy, c3g, quite smooth, but to me a bit boring

 

[plasmod3]

It has been a while since I introduced the c3g to the forum . Steve is right the Telefunken is special and golum is right the s is special. To answer your question Christoph the e83f can't beat the c3gs, neither can the ef802 or 804.

The only ones that beat the c3g is the ec8020 and the western electric 437a. The ec8020 is too expensive for a roll. The 437a is definately better and you can downgrade your rectifier to a cheaper one using that. You will not be able to keep the vc at 63 if you use that though. Having said that the vc in the horizon is supplied by a cheap smps so the vc at any value doesn't really matter. The 437a gain compensates for a less than 63 vc value in the horizon easily and adequately

 

[plasmod3]

Thanks, Ian, always for your guidance; you are way ahead of the pack IMHO. Much prefer WE 437A, more natural and more balanced. With 437A in place, I still prefer Telefunken RGN 2504 rectifier to the cheap Svetlana rectifier, and I can comfortably keep Horizon's VC at 63 (my speakers are rated 95db driven with a 320W SS amp); I did not find 437A having much higher gain than c3gs). However, reducing Horizon's VC to 59 somewhat smooths out the edginess of the Svetlana rectifier and narrows the SQ gap between the rectifiers.

Thank you I think the difference might come down to the upgraded caps and chokes I have. The Svetlana is a good one. More recently I have found some prorotype rectifiers that seem very compelling indeed. Being prototypes though, not applicable to the wider community unfortunately

 

[rspyder]

The Tele ec8020 is truly a one of a kind design. The Picasso of small signal high transconductance tubes. Do you use a pair or two pair (like the C3g)?

 

[plasmod3]

The Tele ec8020 is truly a one of a kind design. The Picasso of small signal high transconductance tubes. Do you use a pair or two pair (like the C3g)?

2 pairs and it was a crazy experiment. Knowing how much each costs imagine if one tube blew or cracked. Thankfully it was safe and not only that it worked very very well I tried it a few months ago over August and September last yr. It is indeed an ultra high end roll. I don't think anyone on this good earth has ever used ec8020 in a dac before that, making this a truly historical event in my mind.

 

[rspyder]

Wow!! Absolutely! Good on you for stretching both the edge and inside of the audio envelope.

Thanks for sharing. Best,

Ray

 

[Sampajanna]

Nice. What are the differences?
Like others here, I also give five stars to TP adapters. I went fro Ecc32 to TFN 3cgs and I think Gollum said everything perfectly concerning that upgrade…. Interested in WE 437A….