Large speaker improvements

fuscobal

New Member
Apr 8, 2020
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#61
Fuscobal-not sure why the previous person responded when they don’t have any experience with Usher or the 11” Eaton especially when Usher are in a different league than Aeriel or vmps speakers.

Comparing the be-10/be-20 to the x-towers, a couple of things are different:
1) be-10/20 have a 5” mid, x-tower has the 7”,
2) be-10/20 have rear facing ports, x-tower front ports.
3 crossover.

Differences aside, there are 2 more things that I have done in multiple usher speakers and that’s 1) load the mass tuning cavity with sand or lead shot. This fines tunes the bass. If your bass is loose, fill the cavity. I used bags of sand.
2) Another tuning step could be plugging the rear bass port with acoustic material or a couple of socks if you don’t have acoustic material. I don’t plug the port completely to let the speaker breathe, you can tailor the output by how much you close the port.

If these 2 tweaks tighten up the bass too much, you can adjust the Speaker position again
Never messed with that mass tuning cavity but I will give it a try, thanks ! Same goes for playing with the rear port.

PS : Since starting this topic, DAC2X v2 came and CDSA is now used as a transport for it until the Streamer will replace it. Sound has better articulation now.
 

steve59

Active Member
Jan 7, 2018
226
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#62
Aerial does make quality speakers on par with Usher and placement is a huge pain in the a s s when dialing in bass, so why get so defensive and start slamming a guy offering ideas? Eton makes a couple 11'' drivers, one pulp in the VA strauss and Mahler then the Kevlar unit Usher uses, they actually measure 10'' but they probably mean the hole needed fit them. I don't doubt changing the xover to 200hz changes the sound, but that woofer can play clean to 1000 hz so I doubt it's muddying the sound, it is a well regarded driver. One thing for sure placement is free and repeatable so where's the harm in trying?
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,049
139
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Round Rock, TX
#63
Aerial does make quality speakers on par with Usher and placement is a huge pain in the a s s when dialing in bass, so why get so defensive and start slamming a guy offering ideas? Eton makes a couple 11'' drivers, one pulp in the VA strauss and Mahler then the Kevlar unit Usher uses, they actually measure 10'' but they probably mean the hole needed fit them. I don't doubt changing the xover to 200hz changes the sound, but that woofer can play clean to 1000 hz so I doubt it's muddying the sound, it is a well regarded driver. One thing for sure placement is free and repeatable so where's the harm in trying?
There is nothing wrong with trying different placement, I completely agree.

Also, just because the woofer can play up to 1KHz and remain linear in terms of output doesn't mean it isn't doing so without increased distortion. I can tell you IME it does not play as clean up an octave to 400Hz, another 1+ octaves I'd expect significant increase in distortion especially at moderate - higher SPLs. Doesn't make it a bad driver, it's a very good woofer implemented within appropriate parameters.
 

P05129

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
39
6
73
#64
Aerial hasn’t made a quality speaker in many years. How did their Flagship 20t do? It Failed. Did you ever hear it? I did multiple times and it was so shrill sounding. Usher is in a much higher league. Their 9t speaker isn’t even built anymore and that was their better sounding speaker for years.
Most speakers can improve their sound by positioning and room treatments, which is what I stated. But if you haven‘t owned usher speakers, you don’t know about the unique aspects of these speakers which others including aerials don’t have.
SBO6-did you get a chance to fill the cavity. I would max it out with shot, sand in bags, or maybe try canisters of bb’s
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,049
139
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Round Rock, TX
#65
Po5129, I did experiment with adding sand bags into the cavity and it did help tighten up the bass. I probably filled it about half way and I'm sure full it would have further helped. However I didn't fill it completely because I was concerned about getting the bags out of the relatively small hole + I had so much weight on my second story room floor I was getting a bit concerned (300lb x2 speakers, subs and rack of gear all at the front of the room). I would bet that loaded with bbs or lead shot you could add a significant amount of weight and it would certainly help.

fuscobal, another thing that I found helped was adding these sandwiched metal <-> sorbothane? <-> metal rectangular absorbers / isolators under each of the feet. That prevented bass from bleeding out of the speakers into the wood floor and to the sweet spot. I bet Stillpoints would be better but much more expensive. I also experimented with plugging and partially plugging the ports. Ultimately it's a compromise between lower bass frequency response and what we hear as bass heft / clarity. Plugging the ports helped me reduce a significant bass node in my room at ~30Hz but it also reduced overall lower bass heft. It is definitely worth experimenting with though. Another thing to take note - when I was upgrading my xovers I recall GR Research saying that the BE20's bass was not flat and was up ~1.5DB. It might also be the case that the BE10s are up 1.5DB, but maybe not with the 1 vs. 2 woofers. That may be exacerbating the bass issue you are experiencing. I hope this helps.
 
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P05129

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
39
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#66
If you want tighter bass, fill up the cavity. I wouldn’t worry about the weight because you are spreading it over a large area. I would unplug the ports, fill the cavity all the way, and then start closing the port
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,049
139
285
Round Rock, TX
#67
The Ushers are deep but quite narrow and may fall in between 2 joints depending on your home structure. With something like lead or steel shot you're looking at close to 1/2 ton on or between 2 joists. If you have more gear or furniture etc., it could be quite a load. My floor creaked when I switched from ML Summits to the Ushers.
 

P05129

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
39
6
73
#68
That cavity will hold about 50lbs of sand, maybe a little more. That is nothing. Your speakers are Around 200lbs each. So I’m guessing you weigh anywhere from 150-200lbs, so when you were moving the speakers around, you had around 400lbs of weight in that area. If you had a friend helping you, then add his weight too. Unless your house was built with small trusses, I wouldn’t worry about it. I have my x-towers on a second floor and I’ve had multiple friends next to the speakers so I probably had 600lbs in a small area. Remember, you take the weight of the speaker and divide it amongst the area of the base, which will give you weight per sq inch or per sq ft. You could find out how your floor is built and calculate how much weight per sq ft it will handle. I have had kitchens on a second floor or a floor over a basement and when you take the weight of all the appliances, cabinets, and say 50ft of granite counter tops, that is many times the weight of your speakers.
 

steve59

Active Member
Jan 7, 2018
226
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#69
My room was about 17' across and I think I settled on a 5-5' off left wall 8' apart and 3-5 off right wall with 3' from the lower port to the wall behind it. I don't know how much is the additional woofer, but the bass output was to that point the best (without holes)I had achieved in that room. good luck
 

P05129

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
39
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#70
What’s just as important is the room length. Then you can apply the 1/3 principle meaning place the speakers 1/3 of the length of the room from the back wall. You can also use the 1/5, or 1/7 Distance
 
Likes: steve59

fuscobal

New Member
Apr 8, 2020
27
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#71
Guys, it seems all my problems were solved when I switched to the new gear :)

Aurender N10 + DAC2Xv2 replaced my old CDSAse and now lower frequencies are perfectly aligned with the others both in presence (volume) and resolution + impact. I am quite happy now.
 

sbnx

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2017
227
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#72
Congratulations! That is awesome news to hear. Who makes the CDSAse? Was it also EMM Labs?
 

steve59

Active Member
Jan 7, 2018
226
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#73
I wonder now if you’ll consider the dmd mid?
 

P05129

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
39
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#74
Hello guys. My current speakers are Usher Be-10 that sit on their provided spikes (cones) + coins (washers). Floor is 14mm wooden parquet (triple layered, not massive) glued to the concrete slab. Room is quite well prepared with bass traps on all corners and in other key areas. The sound is very well controled and delicate, bass is tight and pretty fast but I feel it could have more slam (especially in the lower midbass area). Is there any tweak that could help in this regard ?

PS : Maybe the lack of slam on the lower midbass area comes from the fact that the large 11" Eton driver is mated directly to the BE midrange. More expensive speakers have 2-3 drivers (6-8") to take care of that area.
The BE-10’s are very good speakers. I have the Usher x-towers with the dmd tweeter, 7” mid, and 11” Eaton woofer. Both the mid and woofer are front ported. Plenty of bass in my large dedicated room. The speakers are 7’ from the back wall and 50” from the side walls. I use asc bass traps in the corners with panels for reflection points and even a gik super bass trap. For tuning the bass, I put some bedding filler in the woofer ports to tighten up the bass. I don’t use the spikes, the cast iron plate on the woofer module sits on the carpet.
 

steve59

Active Member
Jan 7, 2018
226
33
35
#75
I would be surprised if the BE speakers with the titanium/be midrange sounded anything like the other ushers.
 

sbo6

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2014
1,049
139
285
Round Rock, TX
#76
Much has to do with the crossover and they all have that high crossover point for the woofers which yields a warmer side sound.
 

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