Listening Room Intelligibility Test

[Phelonious Ponk]

I guess listening on headphones rules out room intelligibility & brings the focus to system intelligibility. This is where I came into this thread & referenced Fas42's question to Art - to paraphrase "can the electronics have a role in this intelligibility & how much of a role?" I am of the opinion that it can & this is a test to determine this.

So, if what is coming out of your speakers is not intelligible, it doesn't matter how good your room is, it will still be "unintelligible"

I hear you, and I'm more than sure that my system is not the most revealing in the world, but it actually did rather well with Art's file and has always proven to be very revealing within its range, compared to most. Especially the headphone system. I even tried this with my Etymotics IEMs, which are super-fast and incredibly competent at isolation, removing a good 20 dB of the room's noise floor. I'll look forward to others weighing in, because I'm hearing nothing, not even a soft modulation, and I can usually hear even subtle finger vibrato on the headphones. I don't know what you're hearing, but I'm pretty sure it's not the plucking of the string. I doubt anyone can pluck a string that quietly.

Tim

 

[jkeny]

I hear you, and I'm more than sure that my system is not the most revealing in the world, but it actually did rather well with Art's file and has always proven to be very revealing within its range, compared to most. Especially the headphone system. I even tried this with my Etymotics IEMs, which are super-fast and incredibly competent at isolation, removing a good 20 dB of the room's noise floor. I'll look forward to others weighing in, because I'm hearing nothing, not even a soft modulation, and I can usually hear even subtle finger vibrato on the headphones. I don't know what you're hearing, but I'm pretty sure it's not the plucking of the string. I doubt anyone can pluck a string that quietly.

Tim

Sure, that guy I quoted also swore the same & felt that it was imagined - until he changed an interconnect cable.
I guess what is seen in the Audacity plot is proof that something is happening in the waveform & that it's not just a continuous uninterrupted note.
BTW, don't use the extract to listen, it is a download & seems to have some issues - I was just using it to isolate the sound I'm talking about. Use your CD of the track to listen.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Sure, that guy I quoted also swore the same & felt that it was imagined - until he changed an interconnect cable.
I guess what is seen in the Audacity plot is proof that something is happening in the waveform & that it's not just a continuous uninterrupted note.
BTW, don't use the extract to listen, it is a download & seems to have some issues - I was just using it to isolate the sound I'm talking about. Use your CD of the track to listen.

I was using the extract, not my lossless file. But that's where I've been listening all along. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Audacity plot shows that something is going on in your copy, on your system. I look forward to other WBF members results.

Tim

 

[jkeny]

I was using the extract, not my lossless file. But that's where I've been listening all along. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Audacity plot shows that something is going on in your copy, on your system. I look forward to other WBF members results.

Tim

Yes, I agree that the file may not be the best copy but the plot shows nothing about my system - why don't you look at this portion of your lossless file in Audacity & post the plots - maybe there is some difference to the one I posted?

The track that others have reported the 3 notes are not my download - they are their own lossless files extracted from CD, I believe.
I doubt that there could be such a freak coincidence that Audacity waveform would show this division in the note into 3 & some people could also hear it using completely independent files!
Yes, I too would be interested in others listening & other impressions!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Yes, I agree that the file may not be the best copy but the plot shows nothing about my system - why don't you look at this portion of your lossless file in Audacity & post the plots - maybe there is some difference to the one I posted?

The track that others have reported the 3 notes are not my download - they are their own lossless files extracted from CD, I believe.
I doubt that there could be such a freak coincidence that Audacity waveform would show this division in the note into 3 & some people could also hear it using completely independent files!
Yes, I too would be interested in others listening & other impressions!

It's lonely in here, John. I think I have a copy of Audacity on my hard drive. If I find time over the weekend, I'll see if I can get it to plot that piece of Just a Little Lovin'. In the meantime, I'm thinking no one else here is hearing this or they'd be in the conversation.

Tim

 

[jkeny]

It's lonely in here, John. I think I have a copy of Audacity on my hard drive. If I find time over the weekend, I'll see if I can get it to plot that piece of Just a Little Lovin'.

That would be great!

In the meantime, I'm thinking no one else here is hearing this or they'd be in the conversation.

Tim

Maybe so? Maybe they are just skipping reading it because of the thread title? I wonder would it be worthwhile starting a new thread in a main section, at the risk of being repetitious?

 

[NorthStar]

-- I do feel for you guys; John and Tim. :b

I wish that I could participate and contribute as well; but I am listening to both of you with great interest. :b

 

[jkeny]

It's lonely in here, John. I think I have a copy of Audacity on my hard drive. If I find time over the weekend, I'll see if I can get it to plot that piece of Just a Little Lovin'. In the meantime, I'm thinking no one else here is hearing this or they'd be in the conversation.

Tim

Tim,
Did you manage to extract & plot this section of the track?

 

[A.wayne]

I used the cd track 19 , i heard it the same way thru the speakers as the headphones, pulse and clicks where heard the same , slight difference being the click was as loud as the pulsed signal thru the speakers , where thru the headphones the clicks were louder than the frequency pulse , i would estimate at least 3db louder thru the headphones ....

What now ....

 

[A.wayne]

I have also used the LEDR test from the chesky CD TRACK 11

 

[jkeny]

I used the cd track 19 , i heard it the same way thru the speakers as the headphones, pulse and clicks where heard the same , slight difference being the click was as loud as the pulsed signal thru the speakers , where thru the headphones the clicks were louder than the frequency pulse , i would estimate at least 3db louder thru the headphones ....

What now ....

I'm not sure what CD you are talking about & who you are asking"what now"?

 

[A.wayne]

The cd of the original track as suggested in post 1 ......

 

[jkeny]

The cd of the original track as suggested in post 1 ......

Sorry, yes! I can't help!

 

[Soundproof]

Good that this thread was resurrected. I moved to new dwellings a while back, and set up my speakers in a nook that is quite different from the large listening room I had before.

But I felt that the playback was very good here, and running the MATT-test seems to confirm this - even progression of the tonal component, and steady taps throughout, the only trouble being at the very lowest frequencies.
Though to be expected, as low bass is a problem area for the Gradient Helsinki 1.5s.

BTW - wanted to raise an important point that Art touches upon on page 1.

What we have since learned from psychoacoustic studies by others and the notable commercial success and failures of synthetic music generators is that the attack transient detail is very, critically important to the musicality quality of any note we hear. This detail is contained in the presence of and phase or timing alignment of upper partials of in the attack transient, and not in the sustain. Wait a minute…what did I just say?

As the dynamic intelligibility just begins to become compromised, the first thing that goes is the attack transient detail, which is the part of the signal that contains is the musicality component. First musicality becomes blurred and then dynamics become blurred as the intelligibility of the audio playback system degrades.

I've had this discussion on numerous occasions, and had quite a bit of pushback from audiophiles who feel that it is the sustain (body note) that carries the most important portion of the sound.
Nope - it's the initial transient that defines it, which is why they are so important. Experiments have been carried out where the initial transients have been snipped off, and people haven't been able to identify the instruments; with the transients in place, identification is easy, and telling sustains apart becomes just as easy. Without ...