LP vs. digital from a price perspective?

[NorthStar]

Sometimes when you believe in something to your very core, it's hard to give up those beliefs and let anything else in that doesn't fit your belief system. I was very guilty of that in the past. If the electronics didn't contain tubes, it couldn't be worth a damn. If the system didn't have analog as a source, it wasn't worth a damn. Those were my hardcore beliefs. I still believe that analog including tape and LPs are superior to digital at both levels I hear digital and analog. My system is there for all to see in my profile. I obviously have way more invested in my analog sources than my digital sources. Having said that, I love the Mytek Stereo 192 DAC and my laptop server procured and setup according to Gary's instructions. That fact that I can sit and listen to my server for hours says everything about what I think of the quality. I still think that DSD sounds the most like analog and I enjoy it the most.

If the basic premise of this thread is that it is much easier and cheaper to setup a full range digital front end than a vinyl rig, it's hard to argue with that. It's true. The rewards of setting up a good vinyl rig are worth it though in my opinion.

Good post Mark.

This thread is about LP (analog turntables and all the jazz you need to make them work at their very best), versus digital playback systems, "in relation" (view from the perspective) of PRICE (cost, in dollars).
Digital won. ...According to the facts, and also the majority of the population (local and abroad).

Sorry Michael ---------------------------------------------------- Fremer

 

[MylesBAstor]

Good post Mark.

This thread is about LP (analog turntables and all the jazz you need to make them work at their very best), versus digital playback systems, "in relation" (view from the perspective) of PRICE (cost, in dollars).
Digital won. ...According to the facts, and also the majority of the population (local and abroad).

Sorry Michael ---------------------------------------------------- Fremer

So did McDonalds. So what does that tell us? That McDonalds is better than The French Laundry? The vote of the population is hardly any indicator of quality.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Hey, it's up to you, and you only, to deduct your own 'favorite' conclusions.

After all, we live in a free world, and we like what we prefer. :b
...Others, what they believe.

* Did you read what I just said; "price relation". As for true sound quality, only the listener with the most experience truly knows. But then, the price equation has just fallen off the boat.

______________

Here's my question (to anyone): Does money count?

 

[rbbert]

...If the basic premise of this thread is that it is much easier and cheaper to setup a full range digital front end than a vinyl rig, it's hard to argue with that. It's true. The rewards of setting up a good vinyl rig are worth it though in my opinion.

Close but not quite. It's more like two questions: 1) Are people who claim an entry-level LP rig provides a good alternative to a mid-level digital setup credible, and 2) at what price point (roughly; I realize at best it could be a range or perhaps someone knowledgeable might point to a specific setup) does LP playback surpass a reasonably priced (or similarly priced to the LP apparatus) digital rig?

The answers (again very rough) I seem to be getting are 1) no, and 2) pretty expensive; at least $6k and up, or maybe $10-15k and up. Other than the ad hominem attacks I think it's been a pretty worthwhile topic.

Who likes Chicago??

 

[NorthStar]

-- Chicago is home of the Blues, so it's all good.

 

[puroagave]

Close but not quite. It's more like two questions: 1) Are people who claim an entry-level LP rig provides a good alternative to a mid-level digital setup credible, and 2) at what price point (roughly; I realize at best it could be a range or perhaps someone knowledgeable might point to a specific setup) does LP playback surpass a reasonably priced (or similarly priced to the LP apparatus) digital rig?

The answers (again very rough) I seem to be getting are 1) no, and 2) pretty expensive; at least $6k and up, or maybe $10-15k and up. Other than the ad hominem attacks I think it's been a pretty worthwhile topic.

Who likes Chicago??

i keep seeing a price tag associated with great LP playback, its not so much about cost i could put together six great combos under $5k new or used that will not leave you wanting. if you dont 'get' LPs and TTs to begin with and find fault with it at all price points nothing anyone says will change your mind. if you didnt like your friends VPI/lyra chances are you wont care for a techdas/vertere/goldfinger (or insert whatver you consider SOTA).

 

[DaveyF]

One other consideration: IF your analog gear is NOT set up correctly (which I suspect is a lot more prevalent than we think), then a good digital set up could easily sound better. Pretty hard to get digital gear incorrectly set up OTOH, I'm firmly in the vinyl camp when it comes to which sounds more realistic to my ears.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

This thread is a personal opinion in the form of question. Quite frankly I don't really care what it takes for one to supercede the other based on pricepoint or any other parameter.

If someone said to me "John, here is a $100,000 all-digital setup that you can have, but you have to forego vinyl!", I know how I would respond.

 

[FrantzM]

HI

I think the thread is going , predictably toward digital vs analog.Please allow me to expand on some thoughts. I hope not to lose you too much . let's raise the issue of needledrops. I will mention a few cases:

BruceB did make some needledrop from MikeL's TT a Sirius or one of the uber-TT MikeL always seem to have in his system. From Bruce perspective, correct me if I am wrong, without knowing which was which it would have been extremely difficult to separate the digital needle-drops from the original analog. Michael, the Analog Man Fremer did write something similar about needledrops from his Rockport Sirius table. Of course many can attest to die-hard analog people listening to needldrops or even pure digital digital and not knowing the provenance thinks it is analog. I will additionally note the reaction in this forum of people touting an LP as being incredibly great sounding only to backtrack when it is learned or announced that the master is digital. These anecdotes point toward something more serious to me and to anyone who wants to keep an open mind: Digital can be so good as to fool even die-hard and knowledgeable people; in short: Digital has arrived. IT is also getting better at constantly lower price and we haven't hit the floor yet.

My best digital front end. The M2Tech with a DIY power supply cost me about $1600. It is one of the best DACs I have heard, yet not the best. I have heard better the past two years. I have a decent TT rig (SP10, SME IV Denon MC cart and PhD phono pre-preamp. It is not to my ears better than the M2Tech. Different? certainly.. better? no. I am not sure that a $2000 TT contraption is superior to the M2tech plus a laptop (cheap laptop) at $2000. The bar may have to be raised much higher may be above $6K for the analog gig.

I am comfortably in the digital camp. I am not looking back. Of course YMMV.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I am comfortably in the digital camp. I am not looking back. Of course YMMV.

And that's the way it should be. Different strokes and all that! I like digital and probably spend more time with it than I do with my vinyl as I'm on the PC a lot (maybe too much). I've even started to buy more digital in the form of SACD these last few months and hope to introduce a player into my system as an alternative playback source.

To me it comes down to enjoyment and the pleasure one derives from their chosen format. There is no better in this scenario as it's about personal choice. I like vinyl because I personally tend to listen more deeply to the music. I also love the whole process of cleaning the record, the stylus, looking at the jacket and liner notes, you know...the whole hands-on thing. It's a very satisfying experience for me.

 

[rbbert]

...let's raise the issue of needledrops...

John Atkinson also wrote in a recent review of a consumer A>D convertor that he could not tell by listening the difference between a 24/192 needle-drop and the original LP

 

[rbbert]

i keep seeing a price tag associated with great LP playback, its not so much about cost i could put together six great combos under $5k new or used that will not leave you wanting. if you dont 'get' LPs and TTs to begin with and find fault with it at all price points nothing anyone says will change your mind. if you didnt like your friends VPI/lyra chances are you wont care for a techdas/vertere/goldfinger (or insert whatver you consider SOTA).

Did you actually read what I wrote? Because your response suggests you didn't. I specifically said I did like the VPI/Lyra, and I specifically said someone could probably put together a specific combination at a lower price that he would feel very good about.

What is there to "get" about LP's and TT's? Isn't it all about how the music sounds, whatever the source?

 

[FrantzM]

John Atkinson also wrote in a recent review of a consumer A>D convertor that he could not tell by listening the difference between a 24/192 needle-drop and the original LP

You'de surprised how many people can't. Of course once they know which is which, the usual "Nigh and Day", "blew out of the water" and my favorite "Not even close" will abound ...

 

[rbbert]

This thread is a personal opinion in the form of question. Quite frankly I don't really care what it takes for one to supercede the other based on pricepoint or any other parameter.

If someone said to me "John, here is a $100,000 all-digital setup that you can have, but you have to forego vinyl!", I know how I would respond.

The point of the thread is actually nearer the opposite. Re-read the OP and Bob's post about prices. A more appropriate question might be "Rob, here is a $100,000 LP system, but you have to forgo digital".

 

[MylesBAstor]

you'de surprised how many people can't. Of course once they know which is which, the usual "nigh and day", "blew out of the water" and my favorite "not even close" will abound ...

lcd.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The point of the thread is actually nearer the opposite. Re-read the OP and Bob's post about prices. A more appropriate question might be "Rob, here is a $100,000 LP system, but you have to forgo digital".

Well...in that case and if I were you the answer would be yes...when can you deliver the setup to me?

 

[mep]

Who likes Chicago??

Me with regards to their first two LPs-especially the first LP. There was a reason why Jimi Hendrix looked up to their lead guitar player. Ever heard "Free Form Guitar?" Ever heard their version of "I'm a Man?" Later offerings from Chicago morphed into top 40 pop music that appealed to a different fan base than their original release under the name of Chicago Transit Authority. Can you say "Saturday in the Park?"

 

[Gregadd]

HD Tracks forced me to reevaluate digital recordings even at 44.1khz. Perhaps we focus to much on the storage medium. There are many more factors involved.

 

[puroagave]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Because your response suggests you didn't. I specifically said I did like the VPI/Lyra, and I specifically said someone could probably put together a specific combination at a lower price that he would feel very good about.

What is there to "get" about LP's and TT's? Isn't it all about how the music sounds, whatever the source?

"Cheap and even much (or most?) so called mid-level (roughly up to that VPI/Lyra level I mentioned) LP playback doesn't strike me as "better" than digital (like my current Modwright Oppo 95)"

that reads like anything up to the VPI/Lyra was worse than your oppo. People who 'get' LPs arent put off by the vagaries of vinyl like surface noise, for one. rather than me speculate on what you meant, you need to tell us what it is about redbook played through your oppo you like better.

 

[Gregadd]

I found digitals' shortcomings i
holistic

OTOH consider this inter alia :
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00731454330428