Magico Q7
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Why? Please take the veils out from your system - they can stay in my house, I would love to add your veils to my already reasonable collection of veils.
Ditto again, Frank, I'm a sucker for that euphonic SF sound. Had the Strads for over two years and selling them was and still is my biggest regret. Now using the Mini 2 and its reputed lack of transparency compared to the Q models is probably why I prefer it to the later. Have not heard the Q7 though...
Unfortunate is the word, Jack. Gone are the days of the 80s and the 90s when high end salons will have their main system playing without appointment or snobbish 20 questions to scrutinize your system to see if your worthy or not to audition anything there. I really miss those days when I enter Music by Design in Sausalito and Audio Excellence in downtown SF and music was already playing for any walk in guy to listen to, and without playing 20 questions. Ditto to Golden Strings, Excel Hifi HK where systems are always playing with excellent music that all you have to do sit, or stand and judge for yourself. Of late, I walked into ARC/Sonus and Rockport rooms in HK wherein the systems are all shut down and the guys were busy soldering some electronics or chatting with each other. In these tough economic times, one would think that they'd move mountains to sell their stuffs but I guess they're doing all right these days.
Taken from the Oct HiFi news lab report. It explain the veils, (and some other isuess...);
"Frequency response, measured at 1m on the tweeter
axis, is principally characterised by a (7db!) dip in output centred on
2.5kHz... response errors 200Hz-20kHz are a
modest ±3.9dB and ±4.2dB respectively for the pair... showed the bass extension (–6dB re.
200Hz) to be, for such a large speaker, disappointing at 50Hz.
Yes, give me more of that. Please!!
But not to worry, Ken Kessler declared it as "big a leap in performance as the Quad ESL was in 1957"
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In this imperfect world of audio, there are veils, towels, and curtains. I'm happy to have veils.
Even my Maggie 2.7QR has it, although not in other models, and it seems that veils are the keys to longer listening hours. Taken from the Oct HiFi news lab report. It explain the veils, (and some other isuess...);
"Frequency response, measured at 1m on the tweeter
axis, is principally characterised by a (7db!) dip in output centred on
2.5kHz... response errors 200Hz-20kHz are a
modest ±3.9dB and ±4.2dB respectively for the pair... showed the bass extension (–6dB re.
200Hz) to be, for such a large speaker, disappointing at 50Hz.
Yes, give me more of that. Please!!
But not to worry, Ken Kessler declared it as "big a leap in performance as the Quad ESL was in 1957"
Oh hell! I'd better start selling off my system. My ears have been lying to me. The data proves that doesn't it. Good thing I don't take measurements before I sit down to listen every day. I'd probably be miserable instead of thinking how lucky I am to be able to walk down a few stairs and listen to my music through a truly wonderful system.
I can assure you Phillip, as someone who listens to them every single day, The Sonus Faber is far from disappointing in any facet of music reproduction.
I'll bring you with me the next time I go out to buy equipment. You can fill me in on the specs in case I want to buy something that sounds good to me. That's what we ignorant people do, we actually buy equipment that sounds good to us when we should be doing the smart thing and reading specifications.
unless you heard all these speakers in the same room/electronics (Unlikely), your statement is intellectually dishonest. They are all great speakers and none of them lack bass extension or transparency, ect...Your preference for Magico is duly noted.
I believe there is a misunderstanding. PhillipK is talking about the XLF test in Hifi News, not the Sonus Faber.
Enjoy your Sonus- as I said, each of us has different taste, most important is to listen by yourself and buy what you like.
PS: and yes, I strongly encourage you to take measurements,at least in my case, it helped me a lot better treating my room, and the impact on the sound was larger than any equipment change.
Ive heard only the Q3 , maybe the Q 7 later this year ,based on what i heard of the Q3 i think its a hyped product , which will not prove itself to be a classic like the wilson X series although they are not perfect either.
In my opinion magico has made better speakers than that
In my opinion magico has made better speakers than that
As I said, this is only my personal opinion. I let other people judge with their own ears.
I haven't heard them all in the same room, but I heard over the past year most of these speakers at least in 3 or 4 different room set ups (for each of them), so I wouldn't characterize my statement as intellectually dishonest - in particular compared to numerous people on forums who have strong opinion on speakers they never listened to....
If you really believe that XLF doesn't lack extension and linearity, I suggest you to take measurements or to read October Hifi-News: -6dB at 50Hz?? 7dB dip at 2.5kHz?
And for transparency, only thing I can say is that I have heard on the Q7 things I never heard before, in particular on acoustic music. If the source material is great, they are unbeatable. Their transparency is at the level of a great electrostat. If you listen to a poor recording, then it will probably sound better on a Sonus Faber which are tuned to be more "pleasing" (therefore having more tolerance) whereas on the Q7 you will hear all the weaknesses of the record (nothing wrong with that, it just addresses different segments of consumers).
I haven't heard them all in the same room, but I heard over the past year most of these speakers at least in 3 or 4 different room set ups (for each of them), so I wouldn't characterize my statement as intellectually dishonest - in particular compared to numerous people on forums who have strong opinion on speakers they never listened to....
If you really believe that XLF doesn't lack extension and linearity, I suggest you to take measurements or to read October Hifi-News: -6dB at 50Hz?? 7dB dip at 2.5kHz?
And for transparency, only thing I can say is that I have heard on the Q7 things I never heard before, in particular on acoustic music. If the source material is great, they are unbeatable. Their transparency is at the level of a great electrostat. If you listen to a poor recording, then it will probably sound better on a Sonus Faber which are tuned to be more "pleasing" (therefore having more tolerance) whereas on the Q7 you will hear all the weaknesses of the record (nothing wrong with that, it just addresses different segments of consumers).
andromedaaudio... I suggest you go to listen to them before posting an opinion on something you never heard, or you may regret your posts like hifimaniac on the Q7 thread on Audiogon:
"I'm a Believer now; I have seen the light. I finally had a chance to listen to the Magico Q7's in a real world, home system and I can say I heard the magic. Dartzeel NHB 450M amps; Dartzeel 18 NS Pre amp with internal phono; Wave Kinetics NVS TT w/Talea tone arm and Ortofon A90 cartridge; mostly Tara labs cabling and all I can say is it was the best sound I have ever heard, bar none! What's even more amazing is the speaker isn't even fully broken in! I will return in a month and listen again. Sorry for all my negative comments above; but this proves how important system set up and electronics is for the best sound to flow with this speaker. I was amazed at the inner detail, musicality, dynamics and sheer effortless sound. Anne-Sophie Mutter's "Carmen Fantasie" on DG Vinyl sounded so real I wanted to cry! This is an all digital recordinng but the LP was anything but! The Gladiator soundtrack LP played loud never hinted at break up or smearing; simply stunning presentation. I won't be selling my Evolution Acoustics anytime soon, but do now appreciate the quality and what this speaker is capable of reproducing."
"I'm a Believer now; I have seen the light. I finally had a chance to listen to the Magico Q7's in a real world, home system and I can say I heard the magic. Dartzeel NHB 450M amps; Dartzeel 18 NS Pre amp with internal phono; Wave Kinetics NVS TT w/Talea tone arm and Ortofon A90 cartridge; mostly Tara labs cabling and all I can say is it was the best sound I have ever heard, bar none! What's even more amazing is the speaker isn't even fully broken in! I will return in a month and listen again. Sorry for all my negative comments above; but this proves how important system set up and electronics is for the best sound to flow with this speaker. I was amazed at the inner detail, musicality, dynamics and sheer effortless sound. Anne-Sophie Mutter's "Carmen Fantasie" on DG Vinyl sounded so real I wanted to cry! This is an all digital recordinng but the LP was anything but! The Gladiator soundtrack LP played loud never hinted at break up or smearing; simply stunning presentation. I won't be selling my Evolution Acoustics anytime soon, but do now appreciate the quality and what this speaker is capable of reproducing."
Stereo i gave an opinion of a product in the Q series line which will have a lot in common with the Q 7 , thats what forums are fore , not everybody has the same opinion, and no i dont need 200000 worth of pre power $$$$ to hear what a speaker can and cannot do .
To me a lack of bassextension was the most obvious , but i am gonna hear the Q 7 probably later this year and that might have solved that problem
If you own one , dont feel offended
To me a lack of bassextension was the most obvious , but i am gonna hear the Q 7 probably later this year and that might have solved that problem
If you own one , dont feel offended
I don't own any Magico speaker, so I am not trying to defend MY speakers. I have several systems at home, none is Magico. Main system is a pair of evolution Acoustic MM3 in an extensively treated room, with APL-NWO-M source and Dartzeel amp. I admit that the Q7 are vastly superior to anything I listened to, including my current speakers. Which doesn't mean that other speakers are bad or that I don't enjoy listening to my current set up, I never said that. I am just ready to admit when I am hearing something clearly better, even if it is not from the brands I own. At least my opinion is not a case of post-purchase rationalization ;-)
Comparing the Q7 with the Q3 is like comparing the xlf with the sasha: different prices points, different drivers, different animals.
The Q3 don't lack extension (you can measure them if you want), but they don't have the typical bump in the bass around 60-80Hz that you will see on several Wilson for example (which fools people to think they have deep bass). Some people like this, I don't, I prefer to have my bass very linear. What the Q3 doesn't have is the slam and weight in the bass that a Q7 or the big Rockport and Tidal can have (normal, given the small size of Q3 woofers). I don't believe you will lack any bass on the Q7... tell us when you have listened to them, I am curious on what you will think.
Comparing the Q7 with the Q3 is like comparing the xlf with the sasha: different prices points, different drivers, different animals.
The Q3 don't lack extension (you can measure them if you want), but they don't have the typical bump in the bass around 60-80Hz that you will see on several Wilson for example (which fools people to think they have deep bass). Some people like this, I don't, I prefer to have my bass very linear. What the Q3 doesn't have is the slam and weight in the bass that a Q7 or the big Rockport and Tidal can have (normal, given the small size of Q3 woofers). I don't believe you will lack any bass on the Q7... tell us when you have listened to them, I am curious on what you will think.
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I ve measured a lot of speakers and ill be very surprised if there would not be substantial roll off from around50 /60 hz down in the room i listened to them .
Bass modes can very a lot in different rooms a 5 d b dip at 50 hz in one room can be flat in another.
Bigger woofers will certainly matter a lot and the double 12 and 10 in the Q7 is a big step up, well see .
The tweeter is the same , and i doubt the mid setion will be that much different .
A flat measuring speaker is not nescessarily right in my opinion , have you ever seen the roll off characteristics of recording mikes , a slowly steepening curve in the bass of lets say 3 (5) db would probably be more accurate than a flat one , and ive designed /listened to both
Bass modes can very a lot in different rooms a 5 d b dip at 50 hz in one room can be flat in another.
Bigger woofers will certainly matter a lot and the double 12 and 10 in the Q7 is a big step up, well see .
The tweeter is the same , and i doubt the mid setion will be that much different .
A flat measuring speaker is not nescessarily right in my opinion , have you ever seen the roll off characteristics of recording mikes , a slowly steepening curve in the bass of lets say 3 (5) db would probably be more accurate than a flat one , and ive designed /listened to both
Interesting post. Personally, i find that on most rockband albums i have, i like to hear the kick drum hit me in the chest a bit even at lower volumes...providing the bass does not 'bleed' up into upper bass/lower mids. I have done this with a sub...cut off above 41hz. I usually mute the sub and unmute during passages to make sure i dont hear any bleeding. But that measured but noticeable chest-kick is very cool...and to me, exactly what i want to hear in my system since that is what i heard during all those rehearsals.
Well yes , but still i am very surprised the wilson X owners almost all use subs , it makes me think that the mtm 95 db efficiency is not matched properly by the bassmodule with the twin focal woofers .
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