Magico Titan 15
- Thread starter Audire
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I think we agree those arrays are amazingly important when your crossover is much higher...THEN, tonal qualities, very very audible character of bass is exceptionally important...and the BLENDING of the towers into the main speakers/frequencies is an absolute must.
Aside from the obvious (quality, set up being more complex with more subs, etc, etc)...I DO think in my experience in our system, MORE to date has been better...and we think there is MUCH more to go. Even if more is being asked to do "less", that is still important. And of course, I am reminded by an audio dealer who spoke of Dan D'Agostino's personal system of Wilson X1/Grand SLAMMS where apparently had SIX Krell Master Reference Subs (the grand daddy of perhaps the current Magico design)...dual-opposed 15" cones, in a massively robust aluminum casing/frame and DSP...plus an inbuilt Krell FPB600 series amp. SIX of them with his X1/Grand Slamms...apparently transformational sound.
blending the towers......now that is an art. i suppose it can be done seamlessly after the fact, but ideally you would like the main powers to be designed to integrate organically. for instance, my particular passive main towers cannot be used as a stand alone set of speakers. on about a third of music they are too rolled off. the other two thirds they are just a little short of authority. and they go down flat to 40hz and still there into the mid-20hz range. the active bass towers have an adjustable crossover that can go up to 40hz. mine are set at about 37hz.
i know you are talking about a higher range crossover, just commenting on how integration is essential and worthwhile to attain.
but i also think it's important to balance the mid bass with the deep bass. if you have all this air moving at under 40hz, is the mid bass as well served? the mid bass is the power range of much of the music; vocals, drum kits, cello, bass guitar......so seamless musical bass is complicated. it's not just one thing.
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100% agree and I am surely no techie and have limited experience with this. But I have crossed over subs with Guarneris...and 'lived with' the limitations of the sound I was getting...and it was fine. I really enjoyed it, but it was not perfect either and I accepted that.
Today with the XLFs, what I can say is that the current Velodyne stops with a very steep 36db rolloff above 40hz (basically silent) and it actually starts to tail off substantially at 36-37hz...which is higher than I would like but it is a limitation of Velodyne's otherwise excellent crossover, finetuning system.
Going forward, I would expect to start at 32hz and work my way down to see if it is even better at 28hz where the Wilson distributor here suggested it might be.
Lloyd, what is your thinking and preference regarding front-firing only or dual-opposed (back-to-back) subwoofers?
Your XLFs have front-firing drivers only. My Pendragon bass towers are front-firing only.
Would dual-opposed subwoofers cause some sort of issue or incompatibility? What would be the point of using front-firing and rear-firing subwoofers if none of the other woofer drivers in our system operate that way?
Hey Ron,
Not an expert but given deep bass' multi-directionality particularly sub 30hz which is more feel than pinpoint, I suspect that (for me) the primary focus of design will be low distortion, high powered, effortless movement of a lot of air. And the dual-opposed helps in keeping cabinet vibrations down due to the opposing forces as I am told. As for implications of sound travel due to front firing vs dual-opposed, again I am no technie, but I suspect most of that will be handled during setup, and with multi-directionality, I am not [too] focused on it for now.
If blending a 2 tower design is already an art , i am afraid integrating the magico sub seamlessly will be nothing short of magic 
Id go for a bigger magico model anytime compared to a small speaker - sub combo
Id go for a bigger magico model anytime compared to a small speaker - sub combo
Even if the Magico is cut off above 28hz?If blending a 2 tower design is already an art , i am afraid integrating the magico sub seamlessly will be nothing short of magic
Id go for a bigger magico model anytime compared to a small speaker - sub combo
It has nothing to do with cut off freq .
But all to do with the usually heavy membrane of the sub that has to move in phase with the small main speaker cones
All the sub problems i have heard were phase problems .
If a sub is moving nicely in phase it isnt that important where it cuts of .
It can even roll off gently on its own and support higher freq as long its moving in tandem with the main speaker its okay
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Interesting...in the case of the XLF, the cones ARE 15" (13" and 15" actually)...plus with the 360 degree phase control, should this not be solveable in-room?
I dont know your exact situation .
Hard to say .
May be you have solved the problem , its just that i have never heard it done correctly so far
I think you're totally right on the importance of high quality and low distortion air movement over any concern about the directional nature of bass at 30Hz and below.
I think in the end the sensitivity to precision in the human ear to those discrepancies decreases once one drops below 30hz into the 20hz and below territory where you are more feeling impact and sense of space/surround than hearing notes. For me, with the Velodyne very low (volume 7-9), and cut off above 36hz or so, all i get is a very subtle reinforcement of weight at certain notes and a sense of space that, as soon as the sub is off or muted, disappears back into the main speakers and their own effect only.
Otherwise, I do not perceive much...however, my gut tells me there is more air/spacial cues and greater ability with greater air displacement at that level. An experiment...we shall see...
Otherwise, I do not perceive much...however, my gut tells me there is more air/spacial cues and greater ability with greater air displacement at that level. An experiment...we shall see...
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