Magico Ultimate 3

[spiritofmusic]

Stereo, I know you're a massive fan of the spkr, so can you answer one q that's nagging me about the Ultimate design. It appears to use a standard dynamic cone for the 15" bass driver, sitting at the base of the spkr. Is there really no discontinuity w/the compression drivers in the remaining 4 drivers, which of course are all horns? Ie can you really detect no lack of speed in the bass as compared to the rest of the frequency range? I understand this bass section is as over-engineered as the rest of the spkr, but as a total assault on the bleeding edge of the SOTA, couldn't a long bass horn have been used so that ALL five drivers are horns, and not in effect a 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid?
The top model in the Cessaro line uses a stack of backloaded horns to provide the bottom end in their line (see the Omegas), and as a result there may be more homogeneity into the bass w/ the Omega's 6 horn drivers than w/ the Ultimate 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid.
Re design of a long bass horn in the Ultimates, do you think Magico could have created one that in the current design starts right at the top most, and rear most, extents of the height/rear of the spkr, and sweeps vertically down, and then forward across the base of the spkr to flare out at the front where the current 15" cone is situated?

 

[jdza]

Stereo, I know you're a massive fan of the spkr, so can you answer one q that's nagging me about the Ultimate design. It appears to use a standard dynamic cone for the 15" bass driver, sitting at the base of the spkr. Is there really no discontinuity w/the compression drivers in the remaining 4 drivers, which of course are all horns? Ie can you really detect no lack of speed in the bass as compared to the rest of the frequency range? I understand this bass section is as over-engineered as the rest of the spkr, but as a total assault on the bleeding edge of the SOTA, couldn't a long bass horn have been used so that ALL five drivers are horns, and not in effect a 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid?
The top model in the Cessaro line uses a stack of backloaded horns to provide the bottom end in their line (see the Omegas), and as a result there may be more homogeneity into the bass w/ the Omega's 6 horn drivers than w/ the Ultimate 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid.
Re design of a long bass horn in the Ultimates, do you think Magico could have created one that in the current design starts right at the top most, and rear most, extents of the height/rear of the spkr, and sweeps vertically down, and then forward across the base of the spkr to flare out at the front where the current 15" cone is situated?

I'm not Stereo but I do have a lot of experience with bass horns so allow me this:

Nowhere in audio reproduction does more compromises have to be made than in bass horn design. It does not matter how you cut it ,a bass horn needs to be enormous and it needs to be inert. If one is then going to realize a sellable design IMO the compromises simply become too big. The panel resonances created by the usual folded designs spread their side effects much higher up in the frequency spectrum than what the crossover is set to. This droning will colour the superfast sound of the compression drivers. In my experiments the pesky time/phase issues are not audible below a magical 250/250 number , i.e. below 250Hz one can have a horn length of 250cm (roughly 8ft) without the delay becoming painfully obvious. There are 2 provisos though ; the crossover slope must be steep and the bass horn must be inert(no sound from it's structure above 250Hz).Again only my opinion but rear loaded horns and the transit between direct firing driver and the rear horn are really not as good as it gets. It was Jack Roberts who wrote that the only horn worth a **** is one where the driver stares you in the face . Truer words have not been written. So ironic that he now espouses the total opposite of that-the old WE snails

IMO ,unless Magico expects of their customers to supply their own bass horn, built on site, they have no choice but to follow the approach they did. Romy has long argued (and I agree with him ) that an array of direct radiating woofers would be the way to go but Magico's approach of a big fast woofer with a big fast amplifier is probably a good compromise. I shall not comment on the rest of the drivers and their arrangement as apparently a digital crossover with what I assume to be adjustable delays is part of the system?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jdza, thanx for your considered response. Yes, I understand that major compromises can be had here. I'm just curious as to whether there is going to be a discontinuity as I heard w/Avantgarde Trios paired w/powered subs (not the Basshorn stack). My issue was not in hearing a difference in speed w/conventional woofers and horns mids/tweeters, but that the technologies were so disparate.
I would hope for $600k there is no hint of an issue here.
Btw, what current big SOTA horns are you familiar with. I've only heard one horn that cuts the mustard w/me, the Cessaro Liszt.

 

[stereo]

It also looks like the smaller box could be the First Watt B4 crossover. It will be nice when the complete loyout of the electronics is explained in the press. I expected the DEQX and some Solution amplifiers but this is completely new stuff. Just one more day.

The Ultimate are shown in Munich with the F4 (unitary gain, silent).
The digital crossover is not a DEQX or B4: Magico design.

 

[stereo]

Jdza, thanx for your considered response. Yes, I understand that major compromises can be had here. I'm just curious as to whether there is going to be a discontinuity as I heard w/Avantgarde Trios paired w/powered subs (not the Basshorn stack). My issue was not in hearing a difference in speed w/conventional woofers and horns mids/tweeters, but that the technologies were so disparate.
I would hope for $600k there is no hint of an issue here.
Btw, what current big SOTA horns are you familiar with. I've only heard one horn that cuts the mustard w/me, the Cessaro Liszt.

Suggest you go to listen to them by yourself in Munich- proof of the pudding is in the eating
I listened to the Ultimate 3 extensively in magico testing room, with different upstream configurations. The bass is by far the best bass I have ever heard, also compared to big bass horns. It is also much better than on the Ultimate 1 and 2.

I can relate to your experience with the Trio. Big difference is that the bass medium horn on the Ultimate is going much lower in frequency than on the trios, and the bass driver used on the Ultimate is a custom design, for the horn. This is a prerequisite for seamless integration.

 

[marslo]

Stereo, I know you're a massive fan of the spkr, so can you answer one q that's nagging me about the Ultimate design. It appears to use a standard dynamic cone for the 15" bass driver, sitting at the base of the spkr. Is there really no discontinuity w/the compression drivers in the remaining 4 drivers, which of course are all horns? Ie can you really detect no lack of speed in the bass as compared to the rest of the frequency range? I understand this bass section is as over-engineered as the rest of the spkr, but as a total assault on the bleeding edge of the SOTA, couldn't a long bass horn have been used so that ALL five drivers are horns, and not in effect a 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid?
The top model in the Cessaro line uses a stack of backloaded horns to provide the bottom end in their line (see the Omegas), and as a result there may be more homogeneity into the bass w/ the Omega's 6 horn drivers than w/ the Ultimate 4 horn/1 dynamic driver hybrid.
Re design of a long bass horn in the Ultimates, do you think Magico could have created one that in the current design starts right at the top most, and rear most, extents of the height/rear of the spkr, and sweeps vertically down, and then forward across the base of the spkr to flare out at the front where the current 15" cone is situated?

Just for the clarification : Omega is the name of the driver being installed starting from the third line of speakers ( Duo) from the bottom made by Avantgarde Acoustic,after Zero and Uno . Duo series include 5 different types of speakers . For example Duo Omega I own has 4 horns and 2 passive subs with built in amplifiers .The bigger horn has no crossover at all , it is a direct from the amp for the reproduction of the range between 170 Hz to 2 kHz. Duo Omega has 107 db sensivity combined with 18 Ohm impedance.The Cessaro bottom line is Chopin, then Alpha , Beta , Gamma and the composers again : Beethoven and Liszt as a top speaker. I will be very much interested to compare Liszt , Trio and U3 in Munich this weekend.
For the record - both top of the line from Avantgarde and Cessaro cost ca 5 - 6 times less than the metioned Magico U3 price.

 

[Dimfer]

I feel bad for the Devialet room across the hallway from the U3 demo room... my wife said somebody from Devialet room had to request them to turn down the volume.

 

[Luiz Felipe]

Hi Stereo I'm in Munich and to lower frequencies they are using two Qsubs ( onboard amplified ) as can you see on picture. The sound is not clear as should be. maybe by pass amplification, the cables are Shunyata. It is a very fast speaker system.

Regards
Luiz

Suggest you go to listen to them by yourself in Munich- proof of the pudding is in the eating
I listened to the Ultimate 3 extensively in magico testing room, with different upstream configurations. The bass is by far the best bass I have ever heard, also compared to big bass horns. It is also much better than on the Ultimate 1 and 2.

I can relate to your experience with the Trio. Big difference is that the bass medium horn on the Ultimate is going much lower in frequency than on the trios, and the bass driver used on the Ultimate is a custom design, for the horn. This is a prerequisite for seamless integration.

 

[earlinarizona]

To Luiz. Did you get a chance to listen to the Living Voice Vox Olympian speakers yet with the Kondo amps? If so how do they sound next to the Ultimate's. The two titans

 

[Bruce B]

Looks like a XP-30, PM2 and Meitner digital?

 

[BruceD]

To Luiz. Did you get a chance to listen to the Living Voice Vox Olympian speakers yet with the Kondo amps? If so how do they sound next to the Ultimate's. The two titans

I'd vote for the Vox Olympian every time

Magicos don't do a thing for me

Sorry

BruceB

 

[PeterA]

I'd vote for the Vox Olympian every time

Magicos don't do a thing for me

Sorry

BruceB

Bruce, do you think the Magico horns sound just like the other Magico box speakers?

 

[BruceD]

Bruce, do you think the Magico horns sound just like the other Magico box speakers?

Oh Dear so sorry for the confusion My ghastly mistake--I'm BRUCE D--D for Dummy!-- not the venerable Bruce B who is an entirely different Animal

I gave myself 100 lashes!

Apologies

BruceD

 

[Bruce B]

i gave myself 100 lashes!

Apologies

bruced

no soup for you!!

 

[BruceD]

no soup for you!!

Funny--his Mulligatawny is Famous!

BD

 

[earlinarizona]

Since there is only one DAC, being the Pacific Microsonics that must means no full digital crossover because they would have needed 5 of them. Can't wait for the mags to publish the full
details along with the sound review of the Ultimate's and Vox Olympian. Most of the press has be non existent so far which means everyone is super busy. .

 

[PeterA]

I'd vote for the Vox Olympian every time

Magicos don't do a thing for me

Sorry

BruceB

BruceD, Have you actually heard the Ultimate 3? What did you not like about it?

 

[BruceD]

BruceD, Have you actually heard the Ultimate 3? What did you not like about it?

The Ultimates--no-- But I've heard the Magico ranges at 3 CES's/RMAF/etc to know the fact to my ears --

Leopards don't change their spots

YVMV-- fair enough

BruceD

I've seen Hi Res Pics of you house/room setup--love the Period feel it conveys

 

[Bruce B]

Since there is only one DAC, being the Pacific Microsonics that must means no full digital crossover because they would have needed 5 of them.

I thought I saw Meitner/EMM Labs equipment in the photo as well?

 

[Luiz Felipe]

Hi Earlinarizona, Yes,I listened this system, it is playing very nice. To my ears this speakers are very big to the amplifiers, the same I can say about the system with Absolare and Rockport Altair, Is playing very nice, but the Dynamics in both systems could be better with more powerfull amplifier. In Hifi deluxe I liked very much the FM Acoustics and Audiopax systems.

Tomorrow I will listen more carefully the systems I liked more and I post here.

To Luiz. Did you get a chance to listen to the Living Voice Vox Olympian speakers yet with the Kondo amps? If so how do they sound next to the Ultimate's. The two titans