Mark Levinson on today’s audio industry

[bonzo75]

That is merely your personal subjective opinion (and drum).


Much more expensive, yes, conceded.

No. Overpriced and not as good. As for personal drum, by your logic it is clubbed with Carlos, levinson, and of course the others who have had positive reactions to the post

 

[howiebrou]

My main issue with ML is that he was one of those who gouged the industry and produced exorbitantly priced gear. Now he is trying to be the people's saviour and call out the practice of those who supposedly continue to do it. That is hypocritical and let's not even get into Daniel Hertz gear.

 

[bonzo75]

My main issue with ML is that he was one of those who gouged the industry and produced exorbitantly priced gear. Now he is trying to be the people's saviour and call out the practice of those who supposedly continue to do it. That is hypocritical and let's not even get into Daniel Hertz gear.

My main issue is with the audiophiles who buy it. It has never been with the manufacturers. Most with the dealers. Issue I have with dealers is when they blow their own book on the forum in a non-dealer conversation, but I have nothing against them making money from those who cannot discern a good audio product from a bad one

 

[exupgh12]

To Levinson's credit, he does make some valid points, mainly regarding pricing and technology. Yet, additionally, I recall that his new company, Daniel Hertz, recently filed a patent registration for "C Wave Technology". It's worth noting the questionable reliability of some of his later products as well.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My main issue with ML is that he was one of those who gouged the industry and produced exorbitantly priced gear.

This is the fact I'm curious to learn about. How were ML products priced relative to competing products in the 1970s and 1980s?

Was Mark Levinson, in fact, the Boulder of his day?

 

[Ron Resnick]

It's worth noting the questionable reliability of some of his later products as well.

Coincidentally my dear friend, Jim Yager, has bought a number of vintage ML amplifiers. They all worked great!

He replaced capacitors. I think the vintage ML amps also sound great (in his system, anyway). In his system I think his vintage Mark Levinson amplifiers sound more natural than his D'Agostino Progression amplifier (aggressive and emphasized in the treble compared to the ML amplifiers).

 

[howiebrou]

My main issue is with the audiophiles who buy it. It has never been with the manufacturers. Most with the dealers. Issue I have with dealers is when they blow their own book on the forum in a non-dealer conversation, but I have nothing against them making money from those who cannot discern a good audio product from a bad one

I have no issue with them making money either. But don't turn around a few decades later and criticise others for doing it.

 

[XV-1]

Coincidentally my dear friend, Jim Yager, has bought a number of vintage ML amplifiers. They all worked great!

He replaced capacitors. I think the vintage ML amps also sound great (in his system, anyway). In his system I think his vintage Mark Levinson amplifiers sound more natural than his D'Agostino Progression amplifier (aggressive and emphasized in the treble compared to the ML amplifiers).

There is something terribly bright or wrong in your dear friend Jim Yagers system.

It ain't the Progression amps as they are not aggressive and emphasised treble whatsoever.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Words are useful only to the extent they help us to distinguish certain things from other things. When somebody writes a piece like this he/she should be circumspect about exaggeration and mischaracterization, which only weaken the arguments advanced.

Applying the notion of "mafia" to the high audio industry is ludicrous on its face. Exaggerated or inaccurate terminology is ill-advised in a thought piece like this.

Here is the American Heritage Dictionary definition of "mafia":


Ma·fi·a (mäfē-ə)

Share:​

n.
1.
a. A secret criminal organization operating mainly in Sicily since the early 1800s and known for its intimidation of and retribution against law enforcement officials and witnesses.
b. A secret criminal organization operating mainly in the United States and Italy and engaged in illegal activities such as gambling, drug-dealing, protection, and prostitution.

2. Any of various similar criminal organizations, especially when dominated by members of the same nationality.

3. often mafia Informal A tightly knit group of trusted associates, as of a political leader: "[He] is one of the personal mafia that [the chancellor] brought with him to Bonn"(Christian Science Monitor).

 

[howiebrou]

Coincidentally my dear friend, Jim Yager, has bought a number of vintage ML amplifiers. They all worked great!

He replaced capacitors. I think the vintage ML amps also sound great (in his system, anyway). In his system I think his vintage Mark Levinson amplifiers sound more natural than his D'Agostino Progression amplifier (aggressive and emphasized in the treble compared to the ML amplifiers).

I introduced a friend to the world of hifi in the late 90's and he went out and splashed on a whole set of ML gear much to my surprise as it was his first audio purchase, and he wasn't wealthy either. The stuff almost never left the service centre as it kept breaking down.

 

[howiebrou]

Words are useful only to the extent they help us to distinguish certain things from other things. When somebody writes a piece like this he/she should be circumspect about exaggeration, which only weakens the argument proferred.

Applying the notion of "mafia" to the high audio industry is ludicrous on its face. Exaggerated or inaccurate terminology is ill-advised in a thought piece like this.

Here is the American Heritage Dictionary definition of "mafia":


Ma·fi·a (mäfē-ə)

Share:​

n.
1.
a. A secret criminal organization operating mainly in Sicily since the early 1800s and known for its intimidation of and retribution against law enforcement officials and witnesses.
b. A secret criminal organization operating mainly in the United States and Italy and engaged in illegal activities such as gambling, drug-dealing, protection, and prostitution.

2. Any of various similar criminal organizations, especially when dominated by members of the same nationality.

3. often mafia Informal A tightly knit group of trusted associates, as of a political leader: "[He] is one of the personal mafia that [the chancellor] brought with him to Bonn"(Christian Science Monitor).

I want to know who is a card carrying member of the WBF mafia

 

[Ron Resnick]

If Mark Levinson would like to elaborate on or refine his points I would be happy to interview him.

 

[bonzo75]

And in Gian’s friend’s Wilson Grand Slamm X1 with Mark Levinson (ML) 32 pre, ML 33 power, the riviera hybrids with the right valve roll were much better than the MLs. Best I have heard Wilson’s (and the only time I liked them).

that does not change the importance of what ML is saying in that article

 

[KeithR]

kind of

"Aside from this, Levinson also criticizes the stagnation in technological advancement within the industry. According to him, companies often rely on old technologies. Yet, they repackage these with high price tags and market them as “new innovations”."

- This is shocking - has he not read from the smart, discerning forum posters here who said things always progress and new better than old, so will pay up more?

sort of funny coming from Mark since he rebadged Chinese OEM gear under Red Rose Music a long time ago to charge 3x the price.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audio is nothing compared to other industries.
A bit of wood / plastic / fabric may be made in bangladesh for a couple hundred $$$.
17.000 euro .... its all about the NAME.
Thats why chinese manufacturers buy the likes of Volvo etc
If you have the " name " you can ask almost anything.
I have nothing against it , consumer is king.





36.000 and probably still empty

 

[Ron Resnick]

Bonzo is the best drummer.

I agree you are an excellent drummer (on your favorite topics).

 

[exupgh12]

Coincidentally my dear friend, Jim Yager, has bought a number of vintage ML amplifiers. They all worked great!

He replaced capacitors. I think the vintage ML amps also sound great (in his system, anyway). In his system I think his vintage Mark Levinson amplifiers sound more natural than his D'Agostino Progression amplifier (aggressive and emphasized in the treble compared to the ML amplifiers).

There have been some reports of reliability issues with certain Mark Levinson products, particularly some of their newer models.

• Specific models: Some online forums (Audiogon) mention issues with the Mark Levinson 5805 preamplifier, specifically from around 2019-2021

 

[andromedaaudio]

Buying things which cost a lot of money is a way of distinguishing yourself from others .
High end audio manufacturers step into into that gap and give the consumer what they want .
Whether its demand from Asia / US what ever.

Consumers want a nice pair of expensive looking cables on a Expensive set of ( swiss ) amps with ditto speakers to set them self apart from others .
The magazines give the product the Good sound quality label and of you go .
(Lol , worked fine with subprime mortgages back in the day , rating agencies all gave them triple A rating)

 

[joeling]

Pot calling the Kettle black !

I remember Red Rose Music

 

[wil]

I introduced a friend to the world of hifi in the late 90's and he went out and splashed on a whole set of ML gear much to my surprise as it was his first audio purchase, and he wasn't wealthy either. The stuff almost never left the service centre as it kept breaking down.

I believe ML was a Harmon product in the late 90’s.